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Babies having babies

January 17, 2008

pregnant-teens-0315-changes.jpgSo there’s a High School in town that has a daycare for teen mothers who want to stay in school. Honestly, I have real mixed feelings on this. It evokes many different emotions and thoughts for me.

When I was in H.S. my health class offered a Marriage Course. We picked 2 couples from our class to get married. My boyfriend and I were one of the couples. We had to plan the whole wedding. Every single detail. We could invite 10 classmates each to attend the wedding. We had the ceremonies during school with all our friends in attendance. To us, this was the real deal! We were elated. We had rings, a Pastor, wedding party, reception, cake, presents even! I am not kidding – this really took place. This also is the same boyfriend I had 2 abortions with.

But back to High School day care …

Is it the schools place to offer this?

IMO it encourages sexual behavior in teens and, in a way, justifies the chances of a teen pregnancy.Your thoughts?

It sends a message of false reality. What are the chances of these teen moms landing a job outside of school that offers free daycare? School is, in part, training for the real world. That’s not realistic.

I think it’s sending a message to our youth that it’s ok to play house and act grown up – we’ll just pick up the slack where you can’t. How about not playing house and screwing around after curfew.

It’s the mentality of “Well, they’re gonna do it anyway so we might as well make it easier for them.” Most of my cousins babies were conceived while teenagers, outside of marriage by multiple fathers. Most of these children are victims of broken homes, poverty, and neglect. I’m not making a judgment call here, I’m stating fact from what I have personally seen.

Why are our schools advocating this behavior? As long as you put an option like this in front of a young mind who has not yet had a enough life experience, nor gained the maturity and wisdom to handle adult decisions, they will run with it.

I really don’t see this as being beneficial.

What are your thoughts?

110 Comments leave one →
  1. January 17, 2008 3:27 pm

    Wow, okay at first, my gut reaction to the first part of this was “It’s great!” but you do bring up some very good points that have made me think. However, I still think it’s a good idea. Odd for me, I know.

    I think there is a small chunk of girls/teens who are grateful for the chance to STILL go to school and not worry about having to drop out to go to work to pay for daycare. It lets them finish their education and encourages them to move forward with that. There are some colleges that offer the same service to single moms/dads. I think it shows them that even though they have made a mistake, they are still worthy of a good education. Kind of like a second chance to do something BETTER with their lives, instead of dropping out and becoming a statistic. Not every girl who gets pg in highschool is some “trashy” girl who doesn’t want a good education (I used Trashy, not you). It MIGHT encourage sexual behavior in teens, but so does music, tv, magazines, peers, heck even PARENTS now days put their teen daughters on the pill “just in case.” If that’s not sending a mixed message I don’t know what is. Anyway, that was slightly OT…. I think that even if it lets one girl accomplish something good in her life and gives her the message that she CAN go to school as a single parent and become a better, more educated person and provide for their kids, then it is worth it. I think there ARE teens who give it a bad name by abusing the privelage, but for the few whose lives it makes a difference in, isn’t it worth it???

  2. January 17, 2008 3:41 pm

    I agree that there are some whose lives will change for the better because of it. But having been there – I really believe they will be few. Good even so. But my issue with it still is overall I think it is sending the wrong message – even if its unintentionally – it can, is, will be received by too man as a free pass.

    You bring up a good point with the media, music, magazines, parents giving daughters BC…and so School Daycare, to me, just becomes another one of these free cards and temptations.

    There’s a double standard. Our young girls are hearing so much about safe sex and teen pregnancy stats in school then passing the schools day care on the way to their next class. It’s just odd to me.

    But again, is it really the schools place to do this. What should be the schools responsibility? Teaching reading, writing and arithmetic right? Or not?

  3. January 17, 2008 3:46 pm

    Yeah, I see what you are saying. I don’t like the idea of the day care being IN the school. That does make it too easy. But I think maybe a compromise would be good….something that maybe they would have to work for in some way…. volunteering, sliding scale pymt, grades, something along those lines….to teach them that they DO have to work for childcare in some way. Also, it would narrow down the ones who are serious about it from those who are using it as a free pass.

  4. January 17, 2008 3:59 pm

    I think about the welfare of the children of these mothers. Getting an education should help the mothers provide for their children better. If these teens don’t get an education how much does that affect the welfare of the child?

    I think before we can find the best solution to the problem of teen mothers we need to know why they got pregnant in the first place. Did they fully understand that sex would lead to pregnancy? Did they know but didn’t care? Did they expect the father of the child to take care of them?

    I have no clue as to how to prevent teens from having sex. Stressing abstinence should reduce the numbers of teens having babies. Teaching safe sex should reduce these number as well.

    I think we have to deal with the reality of today. These teenage mothers need an education to provide for their child.

    We have to develop the best method for measuring the programs that deal with this problem. The program with the best record of success is the one that should be given the most resources.

    As usual I have no answers just more questions. 🙂

  5. January 17, 2008 4:23 pm

    The one reason I would encourage this would be the option to continue education, but my concern is similar to yours in that I don’t see how this teaches anything about real life.

    Ed, you have some good points. The whats and whys that even caused these situations. I guess my thing would be that this is a Free option that costs you and I a whole lot of money in taxes.

    In the real world, they would have to pay for child care. Maybe that should be the same. Take it a step further. There are already wonderful child care facilities in place to take care of kids. Why is the education system paying for this and taking it on when it can’t even afford to pay for music and sports And, who decided they could pay for it?

    Also, this girl may have to step out of school for a period of time to work and care for their child. there will always be a chance to get back into school and finish your GED. And frankly, it doesn’t take a GED to do most minimum wage jobs. And where is the cutoff here. Is this only offered to kids in high school? Should it be offered in college? Why are girls needing this care in college any different than those in high school?

    What this comes down to for me is more involvement in personal life by the government. The school system (whether this is good or not) should NEVER be taking care of babies with government time and resources.

  6. January 17, 2008 4:28 pm

    I think the program that “should” work best is abstinence. I know that immediately makes me sound old fashion and “Christian” – but honestly, it is the only 100% chance our teens will not be getting pregnant or STD’s. Period. One might argue that I can’t expect them not to have sex – they’re gonna, they can’t help it. Bologne. I understand there are urges but they CAN help it. Now, I know, we cannot control their every move. Ultimately it is their decision. So where does that leave us. Ummmm…Oh, how about consequences? Nah, that would be wrong now wouldn’t it? Doesn’t sound fair (she says waayyy sarcastically). Instead we’re rewarding them in a way. It just doesn’t make any sense to me.

    “we need to know why they got pregnant in the first place”

    Haha! That’s funny Ed 😉

    I know…there seems to be many more questions than answers. Problem is when we’re putting all this stuff and availability out there for our young ones it’s giving us cause for more questions…as it’s not really providing a means to a solution.

  7. January 17, 2008 4:48 pm

    NAK’ing here…..

    While I think all your points (BnT) are good ones, I still think showing support to these girls is just as important.

    I see how it would look like a double standard….but what about having FREE condoms in the health center. Talk about double standard.
    And yes, abstinence is best….heck, remember I was in STARS at CHS? But for the girls who all through the cracks, I think they need a glimmer of hope. Someone, something, some organization or whatever, to show them that they aren’t failures b/c they had sex. Why punish the ones who got pg? They just got “caught.” If we’re going to go as far as to say that a teen mom should drop out, even for a period, then why doesn’t every teen who has sex drop out?? How are they different from the ones who got pg, besides being lucky enough to not get knocked up?

    I say all of this while nursing a baby and listening to another cry, so the hormones are a flowing. hahaha! ;-0

  8. January 17, 2008 4:48 pm

    I meant 😉

  9. January 17, 2008 4:55 pm

    The reasoning is they need to finish school.
    many of the young mothers would not finish if not for help with day care.

    The school doesn’t care if its real world. The care about the education of the girls so that they can get a job to take care of their babies (and the funding they will get by having the day care)
    I worked in the day care at our high school and one of my friends was a teen mother.
    It’s not just a free place to put your child, they teach them parenting skills and they have to take classes on everyday mothering things. They have to look for job or college when the time comes.
    most of these kids don’t think, hey i might as well get pregnant, someone will take care of it.
    most of the girls were pretty badly ostrasized (spelling?) for being teen mothers. (at least they were back in my day)
    And the girls are not getting any rewards, girl. They have a baby to take care on top of being a teenager and going to school!!!!
    the schools by giving day care are not advocating bad behavior, they also are not teaching bad behavior by giving out birth control or teaching sex ed.
    Think like a teenage girl for a minute, not any of these things run thru your mind when you are about to have sex and make a baby.
    they are most likely thinking; I am being loved right now. or, a baby will unconditionally love me more than anyone else.
    Schools also take on more responsibilty when the parents/church/kids don’t. A few years ago, it wasn’t the schools respon. to teach safe sex and there it is.

    Kids are gonna have sex because they are sinful humans. Kids are gonna drink and try drugs because they are sinful.
    They grow up and do there own dang thing, regardless of what we, the school, the bible, God teaches them.
    We, are parents, can only show them how to live, show them Gods love and forgiveness, show them truth. Then get down on our knees every single day and pray that our kids choices are good choices and if they make bad choices that God has a consequence for them.
    Sorry for the long rant. XOXO

  10. January 17, 2008 4:57 pm

    Hey Bran…I don’t think this has anything to do with support. The school system should not be in the business of supporting pregnant or unwed mothers. the school system should be educating reading, writing and arithmetic.

    These young ladies need a ton of support and people need to step up to support them. BUT, not the school system and frankly NOT the government. It’s not the governments job or place to pay everyone, babysit everyone and feed everyone. It is the job of the people to do this.

    I understand everything you just said as well, but why are we treating under 18 year olds any different than 30 year olds. I could say everything you said about an unwed 30 year old that now can’t work because she has a baby. Who’s caring for her? Who is feeding her? Should she get free babysitting so she can keep her job? I just wouldn’t know where to draw the line.

    So, what could be best? cause it doesn’t seem to me like this is.

  11. January 17, 2008 5:00 pm

    Hey Krislinatin, why do we think that if this wasn’t offered that they would not get an education? They may have to take a year or two off, but they could still go back and get an education. No one is taking that away, but the choices that have been made changes their priorities.

  12. January 17, 2008 5:13 pm

    Kristina, I understand where you’re coming from totally! You care. I CARE! This isn’t the point.

    Yes, I agree. They need to finish school. So let them! Maybe they have to take a couple years off, get a job, get their GED. Nothing is stopping them from doing that.

    “And the girls are not getting any rewards, girl. They have a baby to take care on top of being a teenager and going to school!!!!”

    I know that Kristina. But like B said, so does the single mother in her 30’s trying to make ends meet paying 800 dollars a month in childcare fees. Is one more worthy than the other?

    Yes, I can put myself in their position, very easily in fact. I remember what i was thinking, or not thinking. For each girl it is different. But I agree with Brent…it still is not the schools or gov’t place to step in. What’s the answer…I’m not sure. Are other sources failing? Obviously! IMO still this is not a great solution.

  13. January 17, 2008 5:13 pm

    Tam, I said why not how. 🙂

    The short term priority to me is the child not the mother.

    Brent, I see your point about day care centers being available in the community so why is there a need for one in a high school?

    I can also see that the teen parents, and since they are minor’s their families, need to take responsibility for the child.

    If the parents and their families do not have the resource to adequately provide day care for the child, and I am not sure how that could be with two families involved, than I think the government should help. Any funds the government provides should be in the form of a loan not a gift.

    As to the bigger long term problem of how to significantly reduce the number of high school age teens having babies I have no clue.

    As far as government involvement goes the question is what is happening to the children of these teen mothers? Are they more likely to become non productive citizens or criminals? If the answer is yes than the government is justified, perhaps obligated, to address the problem. I would think the pressure to act would come more from concerned voters not government leaders taking the initative.

  14. January 17, 2008 5:20 pm

    its an opportunity to finish school, and i think, the school gets funding for it, so why wouldn’t they offer it?
    there are girls who have their own parents watch their babies while they go to school.
    Probably more now than 20 years ago. And this isn’t a new thing, its been in the school system for, at least 23 years.
    Im not tryng to make a blanket statement that the girls would not get an education if the school didnt provide, but with funding issue, and their idea that they are helping the girls, then to them its a win-win.
    Since the school is government run, its not any different than DSHS. and yes 30 years can get free day care to work. from the government.
    Actually the school is just like real life. welfare life.
    And young girls see older women living life on state/government run programs, and well, frankly, they like it.
    Does that mean we take away all government help?
    Does that mean it right?
    People should be helping other people. But alas, people are the problem. Underneath it all, sin.
    I wouldnt know were to draw the line, either.
    and the few people who really need and use wisely the government programs for them are over shadowed by the many who take advantage of the system.

  15. January 17, 2008 5:22 pm

    I think we can all agree our young ones should not be having sex. They clearly are too irresponsible and obviously not ready or capable of caring for a family. Playing house is not a qualification course.

    When a teenager living with their parent/s has an accident, or commit a crime, or deface public property – the guardian is responsible. Usually there are fines imposed. So…. how about something like this for teen pregnancies ( or as Bran says, the ones who get caught) What if there was a tax “penalty” (for lack of better words) placed on the parents of the pregnant teen that go strictly toward a “private school” for teen moms. In this school it would do a lot of what Kristina said that one HS did. Train and teach mothers. But it’s more like a 9-5 job. They have to “work”, go to class, and take part in the child care process. It’s not a punishment, so to speak, but it’s taking them away from their big social play date at school and putting them in a more mature, responsible environment geared solely toward completing their education and giving them the proper tools to care for their child and learn a vocation.

    Obviously I haven’t put a ton of thought into this and YES, I’M SURE there are a lot of holes and things that wouldn’t work. But this puts a little responsibility back on the family and less on us tax payers too.

    Just a thought…

  16. January 17, 2008 5:29 pm

    “the school gets funding for it”

    From who? If it is from the government than is confirms my concerns more. If it is from private organization, than it makes sense.

    “And young girls see older women living life on state/government run programs, and well, frankly, they like it.”

    I think this is what Tammy is saying. it just encourages it. Why are the families not held accountable? This does not make sense. Like Ed said, it would be hard to imagine that 2 families can’t figure out how to financially care for a child. And although it is compassionate, I don’t think the correct response here is to create (by some estimates) a 7 billion dollar bill for the tax payers to care for the few.

    I sound so callous, but that is not my intent. My intent is for our country to stop being so anal and selfish when it comes to the best care for people. It is so political and money driven. You are right that sin is at rule here. There is only one answer for that…and the government doesn’t have it.

  17. January 17, 2008 5:34 pm

    I know Ed, it still made me laugh though 😉

  18. January 17, 2008 5:36 pm

    “and yes 30 years can get free day care to work. from the government.”

    I meant to respond to this as well. Where is the line on this one. I have a ton of friends including my brother that have to pay good money for childcare and they don’t have any options of getting it for free. It is interesting that statistics show that 1/2 of all pregnancies in teens taken to term are in low income families. Would this show the abuse and dependence on handouts? Cause if you make a certain amount of money single or not…those benefits are not available.

  19. Cheryl permalink
    January 17, 2008 5:47 pm

    Interesting discussion… If a young woman thinks that they should have a baby because the school offers free child care, they have a warped sense of reality. There is no such thing as free childcare or daycare when they are done with school. I think these girls think “It’s not going to happen to me”…Ladies, condoms break!

    I have heard that schools give these mothers 3 days off and then they must return to school. I think that’s where the whole free daycare thing may have stemmed from. If that is true then they should take the year off. Three days, three weeks, three months later I can imagine going back to work let alone school. If they go back to school let them have to pay something.

    I see a lot of these young ladies at my work usually because their little bodies are not mature enough to have children in the first place, so these babies come early. Not a good situation. But I also see some of these mothers who “work the system” or are just repeating family history. Either way, I venture to think how much money is being spent whether that be for free daycare or for 7 weeks in NICU? They aren’t paying for it!

  20. Cheryl permalink
    January 17, 2008 5:49 pm

    I meant to say I CAN’T imagine going back to

  21. January 17, 2008 5:55 pm

    I have another question then, sparked by the suggestion that gov’t shouldn’t be helping out here……

    So should gov’t also take away welfare?? WIC?? Some of the people on those programs continue to have more kids b/c they know they can get MORE assistance.

    And if the gov’t should butt out, who then is going to step up and say “Hey girl AND guy (I think we are forgetting the guys here), I’ll watch your kid so you can finish school, b/c in the long run, you DO need an education to provide for your child, even if it is just a HS diploma.”

    ALso Brent, a teen who drops out of HS for a few years to work is going to continue to need to work. They will still have a kid in a few years, making it just as hard to go back as it is to stay in school. They will get lost in the system. Those kids will not go back to school….. heck it’s hard enough getting the “responsible (NONpg) ones” to go to school at all. 😉

    Tam, I like your “school” version. I think that if this takes place already in HS (the daycares) then they can incorperate some of what you are saying….. require the parents to send a class period helping out in the daycare, require that they spend their lunch period there…..every spare minute should be spent in that room. And maybe you could add a fee for the parents upon enrollment, or if the teen works, a fee for them, to help pay for the funding.

    The first year I taught STARS after I graduated, a girl was in the class who had a one year old. She had her when she was 15. She continued with school, participated in STARS warning younger kids about sexual activity (she HAD BTDT), worked after school, supported her daughter. Granted, she had great support from her parents too. She has gone on to be very productive. I think she is a good example that not ALL teen parents are headed for the crapper. 😉

    haha….on the news right now they are talking about the new movie JUNO…about a teen pg.

    I just want to add that I hate to think that b/c these teens made a bad choice and happened to get pg, that that mistake has to define them for the rest of their life…and if you take away accessibility to an education, it will define them.

    This is a hot topic! 😀

  22. January 17, 2008 6:17 pm

    “So should gov’t also take away welfare?? WIC?? Some of the people on those programs continue to have more kids b/c they know they can get MORE assistance”

    In my opinion yes. This should be privatized in some way. Organizations, churches and communities should decide how they want to provide for this. FREE is not free, only to the person getting the handout.

    And, I don’t think that anyone who is capable is going to be held back in life because they do not have a high school education. Anyone can get a GED (sometimes in a matter of weeks) which is considered the same thing in the work force.

    “They will get lost in the system. Those kids will not go back to school….. heck it’s hard enough getting the “responsible (NONpg) ones” to go to school at all.”

    This is truly a possibility, but it is a choice. there are so many options for people to get high school and college level schooling and in turn good jobs for very little money and time.

    And if Hillary gets voted in, she has an idea of how to keep them in school. If they don’t attend, they get taken away from the parents. Another great example of our government at work. It just should not be the responsibility of the government to hand out everyday necessities. It should be the job of the people. I gaurantee that if people were not relying on the government, there would be more people stepping up to help. Heck, look at the Katrina disaster.

  23. January 17, 2008 6:22 pm

    But that’s the thing Brandy…no one is suggesting taking away their education. We’re simply discussing what is the best way for them to continue on, at some point, in their education without us tax payers having to bare the responsibility, ($$$) of their irresponsibility.

    I don;t think I, or anyone else here either, has implied that they are “bad” kids because they made a mistake. They are misguided and misled IMO. Some genuinely care – some could care less.

    Having said that, I applaud those that are keeping their babies and not snuffing them out. [insert ginormous, sincere applause here please!]

    I think my little school version has some benefits too but i think it should be completely separate from regular public HS. AND should be funded, in part – and maybe large part, by these kids guardians.

    Unfortunately, Mr. Happy is getting lost in this discussion too. Somehow the guy needs to be held responsible and shoulder some of this too. But again…how? IF they even know who the father is~

  24. January 17, 2008 6:25 pm

    “I just want to add that I hate to think that b/c these teens made a bad choice and happened to get pg, that that mistake has to define them for the rest of their life…and if you take away accessibility to an education, it will define them.”

    But it does. They made a life altering decision and all of life will be different from there on and probably much harder, But it doesn’t end their life. That is a choice. No one is ever taking education away from them. They can take school online they can take it on their own. They can take it a year later when there are more options for childcare. There are so many options for a person in this situation. BUT the fact is they are in it and all priorities and plans in life change because of it. It doesn’t make the person less valuable it makes their ways an means different. it doesn’t give them less options, it is just a lot harder work to get there. Great power creates great responsibility. They are now a parent…period.

  25. January 17, 2008 6:31 pm

    I have a friend who was on Social Security for disability reasons. She’s my age with major health problems. That she could not avoid might I add 😉 Most have been addressed and she is actually getting much better. But she had to jump through major hoops to get this benefit of SS. It took her almost a year to get approved. And when she was approved they (govt) monitored her every move. She couldn’t deposit a check in her bank acct. from a friend over 20 bucks or they (govt) would penalize her. For a time she could not work – SS gave her 1,100 a month. She and her daughter ate rice crispies for dinner almost every night. This is a responsible, active woman on our community. An upright citizen. An adult who was struck by a disease out of her control who genuinely could not work and THIS is how the govt “helped” her. Seems very lop-sided to me. This was just a side thought…

    YES! The govt should put a cap on child bearing when benefiting from the system. If you apply for welfare you should not be allowed to keep having kids. I’ve always thought that. I saw a bumper sticker the other day that said “If you can’t feed’em – don’t breed’em”

  26. January 17, 2008 6:59 pm

    Brent I am curious as to where saw that Hillary Clinton suggested that If a child didn’t attend school they should be taken away from their parents.

    I will admit I haven’t spent that much time this year in following the poltical debates so far this year. I use the following site to track the diffferent candidates stances on issues. I don’t see any reference to the statement you refer to. Was it in a recent debate or news story?

    Get more teachers into hard-to-serve areas. (Nov 2007)
    We have not yet reached consensus on education reform. (Sep 2007)
    Universal pre-kindergarten; and make family the best school. (Aug 2007)
    Working families cannot participate in school between 9 & 3. (Jul 2007)
    It takes a village; American village has failed our children. (Jun 2007)
    Establish right to education from pre-school thru college. (Jun 2007)
    Teacher testing only for new teachers. (Oct 2000)
    Testing only new teachers respects professionalism. (Oct 2000)
    Hold kids to high standards, starting at home. (Jul 1999)
    Address teacher shortage with salary increases. (Jul 1999)
    Teachers need more peer consulting & more recognition. (Jul 1999)
    Social promotion cheats our children. (Jul 1999)
    More after-school; smaller classes. (Jul 1999)
    Read to young kids 20-30 minutes daily. (Jul 1999)
    Entire school staff should focus on school safety. (Jul 1999)
    Metal detectors at school are not much of an intrusion. (Jun 1999)
    Arts education is needed in our schools. (Sep 1998)
    Give kids after-school activities to prevent gangs. (Apr 1998)
    Allow student prayer, but no religious instruction. (Sep 1996)
    Supports structured inner-city schools, with uniforms. (May 1996)

  27. January 17, 2008 7:35 pm

    hahahaha! If you can’t feed ’em don’t breed ’em!! That is funny….and true. 😉

    My SIL always says “There goes my hard earned money, I’m working so they can have such-n-such” Also true.

    It would be nice if there could be an online HS for these kids then as a compromise…. someone up there mentioned online curriculum…. and that is usually offered for colleges…. why not HS too? They can be at home, taking care of their own kid(s) and still continuing on with school.

    It’s all a very touchy subject I think. Thought provoking that’s for sure. 😉

    Tam, your friend on SS…that is so sad. And so wrong. 😦 And especially not fair.

    Unfortunately this is all a sign of the times. 😦 Look at me, sounding like John Stossel. heehee 😉 yes, I am lame and watch all of those late night NEWS programs. haha!

  28. January 17, 2008 7:42 pm

    Hey Ed, I cannot find a specific article for you, but I will attach 2(i would say they are as unbiased as they can be, but they are conservative) articles regarding Hillary’s interest in state control of children. She sees a child as the property of the state and we as parents are only administrators. She supports state involvement at many levels of the child’s life. And, when Bill was President, she supported his urging of laws that would fine or even take truant kids away from parents. She agreed at that time with his ideas. Those ideas did not become law nationally, but I know because of their urging, many similar laws have been created in different states. Again, these come from a site that I would say is not going to vote for Hillary, but I think it is well documented and written. Take is for what its worth.

  29. January 17, 2008 7:44 pm

    Brandy there are many sources for taking online GED courses. Anyone can take them at anytime. There are a ton of online educational resources. I also know that the City of Medford offers after hours and evening courses with child care. but you have to pay for it. it is not state funded.

  30. January 17, 2008 7:48 pm

    I think that they offer the daycare in HS to remain PC. 😉 B/c if they instantly offered the evening courses w/childcare, they would look like they are “kicking out” the teen parents. THEY being the HS.

    I didn’t know they had all that stuff you mentioned Brent. I was thinking, “why don’t they just direct the teen parents there then?” and that is when I thought “oh yes, must remain PC.”

    I think even the teen dads need to take that option as well. Whether the child is in their care full time or not.

  31. January 17, 2008 7:52 pm

    First, I think you are all right in that the Dad needs to be as much a part of this process as the Mom.

    Kristlinatin brought up what I think is the main issue that schools do this. they get money to do it. I am sure that the extra money is nice for their schools in many ways.

  32. January 17, 2008 7:53 pm

    Also Brandy, do a google search for online GED courses and it will bring up a lot of high schools around the country that have completely accredited online courses and the ability to graduate from high school online.

  33. January 17, 2008 8:02 pm

    I think I am sour on the GED’s b/c while some people think they are the equivalent to a HS diploma, not ALL places consider them the same. I know that the AF doesn’t….but then again they don’t take single parents either.

    Online GED…great. But I mean actual HS should offer their classes online. Like Crater for instance. Instead of putting in a day care (b/c they don’t have one) maybe they should offer online classes…..although I am sure THIS would also cost money. No doubt.

    Really, bottom line, I don’t think anything is going to change about this stuff. Really. Actually I take that back….it will change, just not in the way we are discussing here. 😉 Watch for the day when it’s high school classes in a day care…..a bit of a swap.

  34. January 17, 2008 8:14 pm

    A GED is different, but it gets you a high school graduate equivalent job and it also gets you into college. Then if you choose to be a part of college, all employers want to see is a degree, not whether you had a GED or not.

    Oh and that AF doesn’t like it cause they are the government 🙂

    And your right, all will be well one day 😉

  35. January 17, 2008 8:28 pm

    hahahahah!! Yes, AF IS the gov’t! hahaha! We are the most anal branch as well! 😉 Shhh, don’t tell my recruiter husband I said that! haha!

  36. January 17, 2008 8:33 pm

    We always give Pastor Michael a hard time cause he was in the Navy. He is a lot of fun to “have fun” with.

    Besides the AF has really expensive toys that go really fast 🙂

  37. ur daughter permalink
    January 17, 2008 8:46 pm

    I don’t like the idea. To me it’s saying “Oh ya. It’s okay for you to go out and get pregnant. Well take care of your baby for you.” That just isn’t right. They might think that because the school has a day care, then they don’t have to drop out or get a job. They can still go to school and in between classes and at lunch, check on the baby. That really doesn’t seem right to me. I don’t even know why that is legal. Is it?!

  38. January 17, 2008 8:50 pm

    Sheesh, I looked at this right before I left work. I said to myself, “Self, this is a great topic, one which you would have a lot to say on. Go ahead and go home, no one has commented yet. It won’t be bad later.” See what I get for listening to that Self guy!

    Anyway, I have not had a chance to read through all of the comments yet but I wanted to put my two cents in.

    Offering free day care to teen moms…
    First the schools start teaching sex education (kinda think that should be the parents job, somehow).
    Second, they start handing out condoms in school. I think that would kind of read as a bold statement to most rebellious teens I knew, know and WAS. Go ahead and have sex all you want, just be safe about it.
    Third, (this one may be unpopular) some schools start to actively encourage abortions! Need I say more on this topic?
    Now, for those kids that are left, go ahead and have the babies, we’ll take care of them!

    How is any of this the public school’s decision? I thought parents were supposed to teach our children this information. Wait, I’m sorry, parents are not competent enough to do that and they may teach some conservative ideas about sex education, you know like saving it for marriage?

    Now, on the flip side of this, we have kids who through like of proper upbringing or just being a kid have made a mistake. I did, and many others have. I believe the loving thing to do is to offer a helping hand. Just not in the government run, public schools! Where are our churches (offering parenting education and other teaching in tandem with the child care)? Where are the parents of the teen mom? This is just another shining example of the epidemic caused by our country’s declining morals and values! Parents have forgotten how to be parents. Governing bodies have not allowed parents to be parents. Political correctness has made being real parents unpopular. I want to weep over what we see all around us!

  39. January 17, 2008 8:50 pm

    Sorry, this one fired me up a little!

  40. January 17, 2008 8:58 pm

    I’m really not sure. It would be interesting to see studies comparing schools who offer it with schools who don’t and–controlling for other factors–see how it correlates with the rate of teen pregnancy, rate of abortions versus giving babies up for adoption vs keeping them, etc. Sometimes things don’t affect people the way you’d expect them to, so I’d be interested to see the whole picture.

  41. January 17, 2008 8:59 pm

    I think this one fired everybody up a little bit, self. 😉 That whole self speech made me giggle. hahaha!

    Your list of what the schools have done/are doing brought up an interesting thought for me….. maybe they figure since they brought sex into schools, they should now be taking care of it (i.e. daycares). It seems that they have created a monster. 😉

    Hey Tam, I have another question (you love me you love me, just keep saying that)….I get the whole “parents of the teens” responsibility and think it would be ideal, but what about kids in the foster system?? Would we then go after the foster parents? Or the gov’t agency that put them in that particular foster home that didn’t teach abstinence??

    I was mulling over this at dinner. hahaha. There you go, making me think. I should not come around so often. 😉 I hate things that are good for me.

    Loooooooooooooves. ❤

    Hey Kass, good head, nice shoulders kiddo. 😉 I guess you’re not a kiddo though anymore huh? That makes me wince. 😀

  42. January 17, 2008 9:00 pm

    Going back and reading some of the comments and all I have to say is … Hillary is skeery.

  43. January 17, 2008 9:06 pm

    Brent, thanks for taking the time to provide the links to the Clinton story I ask about.

    I am familiar with the JBS going back to the when I first started reading about politics.

    I would agree they might not be too fond of Clinton. 🙂

    They thought Barry Goldwater was too soft on the Commies. 🙂

    I do have to get busy and make the time to start researching the candidates. I will read the articles but if the JBS views are as biased as they were in the past I would be a tad skeptical about their sources. It is important however to get both the right wing and left wing slant and then make up my own mind.

  44. January 17, 2008 9:07 pm

    SHE IS! I want to hold onto my babies tight….if she finds out I…shhhh…spank them …. she might take them away!!! 😉

  45. January 17, 2008 9:12 pm

    Ed – I would agree it’s good to get balance from both sides. Because even in their bias, there are often great questions.

    The JBS source for the links I have given you are all excerpts of Dr. Kemp’s sayings and writings. Of which they show wherer and when Hillary has either agreed ot taken steps that would show she is in agreement.

    My main concern in all of the those articles as well as other less bias ones I have read int he past is the thought that the government or the state own our children and not we the parents. That is scary. unfortunately however good intentioned it has been, the school system has taken many of the “innocent” ideas of Dr Kemp and implemented them into the system and have become sympathetic to the path they are taking.

    It is a slippery slope to go from wanting to care for someone to demanding the right to care for someone. It seems innocent and just, but in reality it is about abuse and power…and money.

  46. January 17, 2008 9:13 pm

    You’re funny Bran! But I did say parents or guardians. An under age child has a guardian. So I suppose it would fall on them.

    Sean – I hear you! You’re table of occurrences says a lot…as Brandy pointed out.

    What do you suppose the “church” should do? And how much would they actually be “allowed” to do?

    Faith, Brent downloaded an interesting stat sheet on your questions…I’m guessing by the sounds of his fingers typing in the next room, he may be responding to those….

  47. January 17, 2008 9:31 pm

    Actually Faith, I have stats on teen pregnancy and abortion/miscarriage rates from 1972 to about 2003. Its very interesting. There is a definite period of time at the beginning of the 90’s where all the stats took a dive and decreased considerably. I’d like to do some research as to why.

    The most horrifying stat on the pages was that 15-20 year olds getting abortion were 25-30%. BUT 14 year olds and younger were aborting 60% of the time. WOW! Those stats are consistent all the way from 1972 till 2003. I cannot imagine all the 14 year old girls (now ranging from 19-40) that have had these abortions when they were Soooo young. How awful.

  48. Momma Jen permalink
    January 17, 2008 9:31 pm

    I could write a dissertation on this topic… but I won’t. 🙂
    Just a few points:
    *I don’t think teen-pregnancy these days carries the stigma it used to – and that’s a problem (ie., Zoey 101/Jamie Spears). I’ve been told by a friend who works w/ troubled & at-risk teens that young girls have the attitude that a baby is an “accessory.” They don’t get the being completely responsible for someone that relies on you for EVERYTHING 24/7; when you’re tired, worn out & emotionally/physically spent – you still get to be the parent; and that when you’re friends go to a movie on a whim, guess what – you’re still the parent.
    *When I went to attend college, I couldn’t get financial aid b/c I needed my parent’s income on my forms and they wouldn’t provide it. The counselor asked me if I had any children – I was 19 & unwed! She advised me that if I did, I was “entitled” to quite a few resources/monies to pay for college. Nice – I didn’t get knocked up, but yet am being punished! So had I been irresponsilbe, I wouldn’t be still paying for college today.
    *I’m not against providing some sort of “help” (daycare @ school) for young girls who have babies. BUT, they need to work for it. I don’t think it needs to be made easy. They need to be at school early – taking their academic classes, as well as parenting/ “real world” classes, all the while working in the daycare center.
    *Welfare, WIC, Oregon Health Plan, etc – I don’t have a problem w/ these programs being offered by our government – for a season! They should not be a lifestyle!! There should be a cap on how long one gets to be on public assistance.
    *I believe abstinence is the “sex ed” that should be taught. Not just from a Christian viewpoint, but from a health & emotional standpoint as well. I worked in an OB/Gyn office for awhile as a Medical Assistant. All young girls & boys entertaining the idea of sex should have to see (sorry for the graphic detail): vaginal & penile warts – that have to be BURNED (yes, burned) off – and they still return. How untreated STD’s can turn to cancer, and what all that entails. What Herpes looks like, and even though “they look clean” doesn’t mean it still can’t be passed around – and that’s just the beginning.

    I seriously could go on & on – this is definitely a soap box issue for me as well. At the end of the day, what happened to parents ACTUALLY parenting… taking responsibility for the children they are raising – talking to them about sex (if you’re not ready to be a parent, you’re not ready for sex).

  49. Momma Jen permalink
    January 17, 2008 9:33 pm

    Okay, so I did type a dissertation.

  50. January 17, 2008 9:41 pm

    Momma Jen, I like your idea of Government “help” being for a season or maybe for a reason. Kind of like unemployment. it doesn’t last forever. It helps you get off your feet and get back to it.

    The one thing is unemployment is paid for by ourselves. it automatically comes out of our paycheck and is held as insurance for a time that may come. It is kind of like private insurance. Maybe a Welfare tax and we all have our own fund so to speak. can you imagine the money the government would save if we did it ourselves. Of course, the government would still control how it gets to us and what it’s used for in the meantime. And they have done a crappy job of that…think Social Security…

  51. Momma Jen permalink
    January 17, 2008 9:52 pm

    That’s a good thought, and I definitely agree (SS). I’ve worked w/ a handful of woman who have been on public assistance, and have chosen to make a better a life for themselves. They received help going through college and now are productive members of society, giving back rather than always taking. Unfortunately, I think they are the minority.

  52. January 17, 2008 10:11 pm

    All I have to say is, I am excited for Fill In Friday…… my head hurts from all this serious talk. 😉
    This is what happens when Jake goes out of town….I have no one to look at me disapprovingly while I’m chatting online!



  53. January 17, 2008 10:23 pm

    I did a quick google search and was surprised how at how many schools have day care centers. I will add the qualifier that I have not researched the accuracy of the information in Feb. 17, 2008, ABC news story linked below.

    The story does not say who funded the day care centers. I would think that putting a day care center in a school is a local school board decision.

    The stat I have not seen is how much more likely are the children of teenage mothers to become non-productive citizens. If that percentage is significant in a community then there is some justification for a local school board to make that decision. If it represents a nation wide problem than some US Gov’t subsidies might be justified.

    I think what ever assistance a family receives should be in the form of a loan and not free.

    I agree with Brent it is horrifying that some many 14 year olds are having abortions. That is a problem that needs does need to be researched and addressed.

    From the article:

    “In New York City, about 7,000 girls in the school system are either pregnant or are parents. About 500 use the day care centers attached to schools.”

    “About 80 day care centers attached to public schools have gone through the rigorous process of earning accreditation from the National Association for the Education of Young People. Two are in Vista, Calif., outside San Diego.”

    “Research shows children of teenage mothers lag behind other children when it comes to school readiness, language development and communication and interpersonal skills. But studies also show that providing disadvantaged children with high-quality preschool can narrow those differences.”

  54. January 17, 2008 10:38 pm

    That last paragaph isinteresting. In the stats that I downloaded tonight it shows that only 25% of pregnant teens are white and most are lower income. This is not meant to be offensive, but that report would seem to confirm inner city youths as the standard.

    It would also seem to be misleading considering that it is using only one aspect of the teens involved, as the standard.

  55. January 17, 2008 11:00 pm

    Yikes! it’s 2:00 am here. These very interesting topics are keeping up past my bed time again.

    Of course being retired I don’t have to get up early and go to work. Not to rub it in. 🙂

    Fillin Friday will have to wait. Got no brain power left.

  56. January 18, 2008 3:26 am

    Interesting topic.

    I think that schools have a responsibility to provide an education to their pupils. Furthermore they should make reasonable efforts to fit in around the needs and requirements of the pupils. However a school has a limited budget and limited space. A creche takes up the space of a classroom and the wages of a teacher. Is it better to educate one child while limiting the education of many others?

    School is a place where children go to be prepared for adult life, to become productive members of society. In any given school you will have future scientists, engineers, pilots, taxi drivers, waitresses, criminals, drug dealers, single mothers and a huge range of other things. A successful school should equip pupils with the skills to maximise their potential and limit their negative impact. Is the cost to society greater if you provide a creche?

    How about in the long term? If one child slips through the net of education to become a drain on society then their children will likely also become a drain on society. Literacy rates for children are low when they have illiterate parents. It’s a vicious circle that needs to be broken. Does providing a creche allow a young mother to break that cycle of dependence on the state and enable them to become productive members of society? Does this also then allow their children to be productive members of society?

    I don’t know the answer to this. I do know that educating children in birth control could prevent child pregnancy and that not telling children how to protect themselves will lead to more teen pregnancies, STDs, and abortions.

    Abstinence is only 99.9999% effective if the Virgin Mary is to be believed.

    Now I’m going to go back and read all those comments.

  57. January 18, 2008 4:22 am

    Young teen pregnancies has been rewarded in PA through automatic assistance-cash, food stamps, WIC, and yes free to minimal expense daycare. Now when I was 24 I did use the system for a short time as I found myself alone with a new baby, and needed to work to take care of us, but that was my morals and standards. Seems the young ones today don’t have the same standards, and sadly I don’t think it is going to get better if we just keep giving them everything. There are 12 yearolds having babies here, and although I care deeply about them, they have to learn their are repercussions, and bad choices are just that bad choices…not cha-ching! That is how some of these young girls see and more money if you have another one, and someone else takes care of them. A generation teaching another generation to let someone else take care of them, has anyone told these kids our country is broke!

  58. January 18, 2008 8:34 am

    back up to the school gets paid for thing…
    schools get funding from govern. for the amount of kids in the school and how good they do. (thats what all the testing is for)
    special programs also get funding from the govern. the program that our school started got funding. (but don’t quote me on it).
    also, the comments got blurry at about #30.
    All these things are of the world, we are not of the world. we live in this world, we watch the world run. run itself into the ground. We know it will happen, it says so in the bible.
    We cannot or should not expect or tell anyone how many babies to have or how to take care of them or if to kill them.
    of course my attitude is, I’ve tried, it’s failed, all i can do is pray and nudge and show by example.
    Maybe that is a defeat-ist attitude, but my job is to spread the gospel, show love, peace and kindness, help the widowed and ophaned, young and old. There is nothing new under the sun, this has been and always will be a thorn.
    Brent needs to get on the campaign trail~
    Tam can be vice president…. 🙂

  59. January 18, 2008 8:42 am

    Sorry, I gotta do it. I will not touch it often, but there was mention of the campaign trail…

    Check out Mike Huckabee, he has my vote. ‘Nuff said by me. I won’t fill anymore space with it unless someone asks.

  60. January 18, 2008 12:16 pm

    Sorry, for dropping in late. Fascinating thread.

    Brent said: In my opinion yes. This should be privatized in some way. Organizations, churches and communities should decide how they want to provide for this.

    But they don’t do it. At least not enough of them.

    Tam said;What do you suppose the “church” should do? And how much would they actually be “allowed” to do?

    The problem is that the church ceded this responsibility to the state long ago and it will be difficult to get it back. That being said, plenty of inner city churches are not waiting for ‘permission’ but taking the ministry to these kids.

    Brent said; The most horrifying stat on the pages was that 15-20 year olds getting abortion were 25-30%. BUT 14 year olds and younger were aborting 60% of the time.

    I think that makes sense; the more mature a girl is the more she can be seen as a mother.

    Faith said: …see how it correlates with the rate of teen pregnancy, rate of abortions versus giving babies up for adoption vs keeping them, etc. Sometimes things don’t affect people the way you’d expect them to, so I’d be interested to see the whole picture.

    That makes good sense. Some have said these girls are being rewarded for becoming pregnant. Perhaps they are being helped (rewarded) for not having an abortion.

    Hoverfrog said: I don’t know the answer to this. I do know that educating children in birth control could prevent child pregnancy and that not telling children how to protect themselves will lead to more teen pregnancies, STDs, and abortions.

    Amen, amen. My wife’s niece, raised in a born again, bible thumping charismatic Christian family, attending only Bible schools, graduated from her Christian high school and promptly became pregnant. She received no sex education so that provided little incentive for her to try sex. She figured that out on her own. The means to prevent pregnancy were not at her personal disposal. (She is now married and raising her first daughter as well as a second son, conceived in marriage.)

    No easy answers, eh?

  61. January 18, 2008 12:36 pm

    Christian, in response to the last paragraph here, this is what I am talking about in my comment about parents falling down in their responsibility. It IS a parents job to EDUCATE. Unfortunately, it is an uncomfortable topic for most to talk with their kids about which is something for them to get over and accept their role in their kids lives. A rallying cry if you will, and again, I realize that this is really just ranting and getting frustration but it is a discussion.

  62. January 18, 2008 12:37 pm

    That kind of came out wrong, but I am not sure how to clarify it. Sorry!

  63. January 18, 2008 1:35 pm

    I agree with you Sean. Very much so. A parent should prepare a child not just for understanding how a baby is made but what they will be encountering in the way of these new sexual feelings that they will be encountering, that they are not taboo or shameful, but normal and natural and an open topic for discussion. What a dangerous concept to convey to children; thinking lustful thoughts is just as bad as acting on those thoughts.

    I think it should be a cooperative venture between schools, parents and the church, united against this prevailing culture that says the ultimate value is found in sexuality, physical beauty and immediate gratification. It’s not about sex- it’s about greed.

  64. January 18, 2008 3:15 pm

    Although I agree with what you’re saying 100%, we still live in a world full of sin. I think parents need to pro-actively approach this at home, before it reaches sex ed in school. Education of this type should start at home and in the church, but unfortunately some kids don’t get this kind of education at either.

    Although I am NOT advocating sexual activities for young kids, it is a reality in today’s world. If my daughter, heaven forbid, made some unwise choices in her life and ended up pregnant my bottom line choice for her would be to choose a life that would benefit her and her child. That would be to finish school, and if I worked full time who would watch over the child? A child care facility in her school would be an ease off of my mind, when it came to a hands on care for the mother/child. What teenage child can afford childcare?

  65. January 18, 2008 3:27 pm

    Hey girl! How are you feeling?

    No teenage child can afford daycare. A lot of married adults with children can’t either. My sis and bro in law for instance. They scramble each week to get childcare for their two young ones…free of charge from willing family and friends. That’s how I think it should work.

    The other option for a teen mom is to stay home. Take on line courses to get her GED (HS diploma equivalent) and get a part time job at night to support her baby.

    Is this such a bad idea? Is this asking too much? Is it not fair? I’m sorry for the girl who has to miss out on going to HS – it is unfortunate. I’m sorry that they made a poor choice. I know it’s scary. But they need to shoulder responsibility…bottom line.

    And I also wanted to clarify this for everyone. I have never suggested that we NOT take care, reach out to, or love on these kids. Not once. I just don’t believe this approach is the best…and I think it will eventually become a monster.

  66. January 18, 2008 3:32 pm

    “The problem is that the church ceded this responsibility to the state long ago”

    Hey Christian, I was actually thinking about this and then you brought it up. Did the church actually give the power back or did the state take it. Seems to me that even if the church wanted to work with the schools, the state would have some serious issues with it. I know there would be ways to get it done and it should be. But I was curious if we would even be allowed to do something like this today.

  67. January 18, 2008 5:31 pm

    *Had to show you this….considering she was mentioned earlier in this thread. 😉 heehee

    The Old Soldier

    One sunny day in 2009, an old soldier approached the White House from
    across Pennsylvania Avenue , where he’d been sitting on a park bench. He
    spoke to the Marine standing guard and said, “I would like to go in and
    meet with President Hillary Clinton.”

    The Marine replied, “Sir, Mrs. Clinton is not President and doesn’t
    reside here.”

    The old man said, “Okay,” and walked away.

    The following day, the same man approached the White House and said to
    the same Marine, “I would like to go in and meet with President Hillary

    The Marine again told the man, “Sir, as I said yesterday, Mrs. Clinton
    is not President and doesn’t reside here.”

    The man thanked him and again walked away .

    The third day, the same man approached the White House and spoke to the
    very same Marine, saying “I would like to go in and meet with President
    Hillary Clinton.”

    The Marine, understandably agitated at this point, looked at the man and
    said, “Sir, this is the third day in a row you have been here asking to
    speak to Mrs.Clinton. I’ve told you already several times that Mrs.
    Clinton is not the President and doesn’t reside here Don’t you

    The old man answered, “Oh, I understand you fine, I just love hearing
    you say it!”

    The Marine snapped to attention, saluted, and said, “See you tomorrow,

  68. January 18, 2008 6:31 pm

    Heard that one before but I never get tired of it!

  69. January 18, 2008 8:43 pm

    I hear what you’re saying Brent, and I think that what happened was that as the state began to become more involved with social welfare much of the church applauded the action (much as elements of the more ‘liberal’ wing of the church would like to see them increase their role here). But one reason the state took an interest is because the church was ignoring (or perhaps shunning) some of the people in these types of circumstances. Now there would be many strings attached if the church would try to participate in a civic environment. But there’s no reason they couldn’t set up day cares on their premises for single mothers. In fact some do. My mother was helping out at a Nazarene church day care that was run by a Catholic nun.

    I don’t think the open sexuality and promiscuity that is taking place with our children is anything new. It’s just the inevitable result of the Sexual Revolution of the’60 s (that their grandparents may have been a part of). The schools aren’t the culprit – it’s MTV, VH1, American Idol and America’s Next Top Model along with Cosmopolitan, Redbook and People magazines. I mean, look at what we are reading and watching for God’s sake. How else would we expect our children to act?

  70. January 18, 2008 8:56 pm

    Christian I am in agreement with you. What less would we expect. The church has failed at getting the job done. The state has taken it’s place and now the church is the outsider in social justice.

    We don’t have to be like you have said though. Our church is starting a partnership with a local school and in our case they have welcomed it. They are begging for it. We will be doing whatever they like as well as tutoring and after school care for latch key kids. No proseletizing, just extending care to a part of the community that is in need of it. I am excited to see 10 years down the road when these elementary kids are graduate from high school, the kind of impact just extending a hand will have had.

    I’d like to see the church as a leader in this again someday. And for all of you reading this, thinking that your church doesn’t do this and you don’t know how to get them to…stop it. you ARE the church, just do it and find an organization or local church that is willing to join.

  71. January 18, 2008 9:11 pm

    That is fantastic, what your church is attempting. There is such a tremendous need for this, particularly in the poor neighborhoods of our cities. In Baltimore the school doors are chained and padlocked immediately after dismissal. Many of these kids live in very dysfunctional homes and have no where to go after school. The vast majority of juvenile crime takes place between 4 pm and 10 pm. Wonder why?

    Which reminds me. More than a few of the girls at my school are pregnant. With most of these young inner city mothers and fathers it’s not an accident, not a byproduct of careless sex. And it’s not part of a welfare scam (although invariably the mother and child will receive extensive SSI services). It’s a badge of honor and a coming of age ritual. These kids are adrift and live essentially (according to our society) incidental and unimportant lives. To become a parent turns them from being a no-account kid without a say into a defacto adult – someone that needs to be recognized and taken seriously.

  72. January 18, 2008 9:16 pm

    OK, I have stayed quiet (yes, I know, hard stuff) but I’m just gonna throw my two cents in…..

    Your last sentence B, really got me. Then why hasn’t it? I worked with these girls for 3 years when I worked for the EP school system. Like I shared with Tam, they sent out letters and got little to no response. If they sent out “need help” letters in CP, you think it would be any different?

    What is the difference between these girls, and I’m sorry, the guys that got them that way in the first place, and the kids that are addicted to drugs and alchohol at 15. It really doesn’t matter if our morals are at a higher standard because the facts are this is happening all over the town.

    You and I can say that Christ is the only answer, we know Him, we trust Him, how much time have we as individuals spent on this issue? Now multiply that by thousands…..

    I don’t mean any disrespect by this question and I truely hope you guys hear my heart on this….

    What if ,…..Tam, you reached a point where you physically could not function. B, you work two jobs now, cuz you have to make ends meet……your family has their own problems, you can’t help but feel sorry for them….then it happens…

    One of your kids comes home, tells you they are pregnant, or they got someone pregnant. They aren’t immune.

    What now? The school is offering a program, for them to graduate, you don’t have time because you have to survive…you have no help….zero! Would you give them the same advice, to deal with their concequences?

  73. January 18, 2008 9:26 pm

    I think Deb brings up a great point. There have been so many things that I was so sure about until suddenly I find myself in those exact situations that I knew would never happen to me or my family. Raising teenagers has a way of leveling the playing field for some of us.

  74. January 18, 2008 9:40 pm

    Hey Deb, I am a little confused. You make it sound as if our ideas or our thoughts of how yo make a government system better are related to whether or not we care and want to see something done about it.

    I want to see these girls…and boys loved on and cared for, but I want to see Christians and parents step up to the plate and get it done. That’s the challenge here, because the current systems only seem to band aid a major wound.

    What would happen if my kids comes home pregnant. They would be loved no differently. I think you know us well enough personally to know that Hodge family level of care is not determined by categorizing failures or mistakes.

    Would we take advantage of one of the programs? I am not sure. I am not sure if the best thing at that time is rather to teach my child how to be a parent more than get an immediate education. All choices have consequences and each situation is different. The one thing I know for sure, is that our child would be loved.

    Christian is right though. I can’t tell you the best way to deal with it until I have been through it myself. Even then, it would still be my way. Didn’t we just talk about this on my blog 🙂

  75. January 18, 2008 9:56 pm

    I’m igonoring your blog for the moment….;)

    I don’t think what I wrote was confusing…I think it all ties into eachother. The system, as you have pointed out is not effiecient nor working, or acceptable. You know as well as I do how diffficult it is to overthrow a government, and that it takes a sufficient amount of time.

    Who is willing to do this for these children who are going through this? I want to see these kids loved on and cared for as well, that’s why I volunteered. How else will they know of Christ? They don’t get it from the public school system.

    You say that your kids would be loved on no differently, but that’s because you know what true love is. What about the hundreds that don’t? These programs to teach young Moms and Dads how to be loving parents, in fact they are trying to implement programs in the schools and RCC on how to do just that. Is that wrong?

    Maybe they should have classes for the parents who don’t know how to show their children that they are still loved.

  76. January 18, 2008 10:11 pm

    You know, it’s funny. I encounter a lot of public servants who are involved in the types of programs we are talking about here – essentially social work. I am amazed at how so many of them are open about their faith – primarily Christian. Much more so than I ever remember seeing in the business world. Rarely do I see any of these apparatchiksthat National Review or American Spectator say fill the ranks of the social welfare system. Admittedly, things could probably be run more efficiently but I am convinced that most of the people doing this kind of work do it because, like Deb, they love the kids.

  77. January 18, 2008 10:11 pm

    Deb, IF something like what you painted happened to us – I’m really not sure i would think to depend on the schools programs first. Honestly. I would go to our church. Now remember you asked about us being in this situation so obviously my response would lean to the church.

    I’ve had to clarify several times through out these comments that we, I, have never suggested NOT caring for these kids. Caring for them isn’t the concern – it’s how best to care for them that is in question. IMO – in the long run – school run programs like these may cayue more harm than good. But we’ll just have to see the numbers in 10 more years I guess.

    Sean laid it out quite well earlier with this…

    “Offering free day care to teen moms…
    First the schools start teaching sex education (kinda think that should be the parents job, somehow).
    Second, they start handing out condoms in school. I think that would kind of read as a bold statement to most rebellious teens I knew, know and WAS. Go ahead and have sex all you want, just be safe about it.
    Third, (this one may be unpopular) some schools start to actively encourage abortions! Need I say more on this topic?
    Now, for those kids that are left, go ahead and have the babies, we’ll take care of them!”

    Although I haven’t heard of any schools near us encouraging abortions…but they have taught about them.

    Ed said in the beginning, there are more questions than answers…for sure!!!

    This isn’t about if these kids deserve care and love and support. They absolutely do!!!

    When our schools and govt usurp our position as parents with all the easy access and ‘answers” to their every whim – it makes the parents ground a little less firm and unappealing to their teens. Does that make sense?

    Many thoughts thrown out here…do your best 😉

  78. January 18, 2008 10:13 pm

    Have we gone from talking about “HS Day Care Centers” to just HS run programs that teach about family?

  79. January 18, 2008 10:17 pm

    Cool Deb, I wasn’t getting fully what you were saying.

    “These programs to teach young Moms and Dads how to be loving parents, in fact they are trying to implement programs in the schools and RCC on how to do just that. Is that wrong?”

    Only if they teach it correctly. I think there are some really off the wall ways of teaching parents how to “train” and care for their kids. Again, I would rather see the church step up to the plate and be the standard for this. Just go back and read some of the links I posted regarding Dr Kemp, the director of the Kempe National Center for the Prevention and Treatment of Child Abuse and Neglect and a leading adviser for how our government determines care for children and parents responsibility. There is no chance in hell I want this guy or his ideas teaching people about childcare.

  80. January 18, 2008 10:22 pm

    I think there are some really off the wall ways of teaching parents how to “train” and care for their kids.

    You bet. But be careful thinking that the church is always up to this task. My friend Bruce tells me that he once joined a church and in the womans’ introductory program his wife was given two paddles, one for each of their children. Now, I am not opposed to corporal punishment per se but each child, each situation, warrants a unique response.

  81. January 18, 2008 10:31 pm

    I agree with you B. What I am trying to get across here is that we are trying to implement our Christian values in a non-christian school system. How do we do that? The only way is to get involved with our school systems. I don’t see that happening among the Christian community because quite frankly there would be quite a fight on our hands.

    The time I spent in the school district, there was even a dipute about Harriet Tubman being presented because she had Christian values. So, how do we get these kids educated?

    Miss Tammers, ya know I love ya!!!! Your examples with Sean tho…I know for a fact that there are letter sent out with each application for the parents to sign in order for the kids to participate until they reach the age of 16. Then it’s a free for all. Did you know that a teen at the age of 15 can be sexually active, and ask for free condomes from the health center?

    I can’t help but ask myself, what could have been in the school systems that would have helped us make wiser choices when we were that age?

  82. January 18, 2008 10:44 pm

    Have we gone from talking about “HS Day Care Centers” to just HS run programs that teach about family?

    Is there a difference? Right now there isn’t. It’s all blended together to best suit these girls for reality, because they are not getting it at home.

    Although I haven’t heard of any schools near us encouraging abortions…but they have taught about them.

    They don’t have to because the students do. Did you know your kids could get any drug they wanted simply by asking not more than 3 blocks away from their school?

    It only takes once, and they become a statistic. I know, first hand.

    Yes, they talk about sex education, they have to have a permission slip to do so. Most kids sign it themselves, or have someone else do it…..but it’s still accepted.

    Yes, condoms are available. No, I don’t know of encouraging abortions from a school, like I said, peers take care of that one.

    The go ahead and have babies…well, the girls I worked with were full of shame and despair….I just don’t see that attitude in the ones that chose to buckle down and graduate despite their choices.

  83. January 18, 2008 10:48 pm

    C – I understand what you are saying. I don’t think that it is the churches or the schools responsibility to take the place of the parent. I think it is the churches and communities responsibility to care for the needs that are in question. And I just have a hard time with the school systems taking the lead on this and I think it needs to be better thought out. I don’t remember ever being given an opportunity to decide or discuss how our kids are cared for and what role I as a parent have in it.

    Deb – I think you point out how scary the school systems can be. they kind of have free reign over what’s best for our kids and we don’t get a lot of say. And i hope none of our atheist friends are reading, cause they would get upset that you say that social justice is a Christian value. I would agree with you, but I am not trying to enforce it on anyone. I am asking them to not enforce it on me.

    We at Table Rock have had zero resistance to getting involved with Howard Elementary. They are begging for it. But we aren’t going in to evangelize, we are going in to care. the only reason a school system would be concerned is that we want to “convert” all the kids. If that is not the intent and trust is formed. It would be foolish for a school to say no and I think most of them know that.

  84. January 18, 2008 10:53 pm

    Deb – The programs in town here are not teaching young moms to be parents, they are teaching young mom’s the logistics of taking care of a a baby…feeding…sleeping habits…diaper changing. There is a big difference. Any childcare facility can provide that. The parenting skills these kids need can only come from their own parents. Parents have to step up.

    Also, Planned Parenthood is a strong supporter of abortions(at least in our area) and often encourage it to underage girls. We’ve actually had discussions with them. They are right across the street from the church. They are easily accessible to girls from campus(including Middle School) as they are one of the first options the school gives out for off campus counseling.

  85. January 18, 2008 10:55 pm

    Brent, I’m sorry, but everyone in the school knew why I was there… it was to bring these kids to Christ. It’s my purpose in everything I do, I don’t care if I’m in Target or school. All schools are begging for it, from the elementary to High School, and it’s amazing what happens once you take a stand.

    You can’t tell me that if a kid saw something different in you and asked you why you were so danged happy all the time, you wouldn’t tell him or her? Or a scared pregnant teen came up to you….would you treat them differently at school than you would on the street?

  86. January 18, 2008 10:58 pm

    “The programs in town here are not teaching young moms to be parents, they are teaching young mom’s the logistics of taking care of a a baby…feeding…sleeping habits…diaper changing. ”

    Exactly my friend, so who is willing to take this on to turn it around? People who have never experienced love themselves and are trying to teach others the easy way out? Or, us. I think there is great significance in the fact that our church is right across the street.

  87. January 18, 2008 11:01 pm

    Table Rock will be there to bring them to Christ as well, but not by preaching, by doing.

    If a kid asks me about my faith and I am allowed, I would tell them. If I am not allowed, I have to respect that. They would know me well enough to find me off campus and find out who I am and what i believe in. I am not interested in throwing out a relationship with possibly thousands of elementary kids over the next 10 years, for one moment.

    I am interested in showing that child who Jesus is, not just telling them about Him. Evangelism has to be relational. As that child gets to know me, they will get to know my Savior as well.

  88. January 18, 2008 11:01 pm

    Yes Deb I know about all those things.

    It is still my position that school should not be the authority and means on this issue.

    We’ve already established that kids are gonna have sex either way. So IMO handing out condoms and taking care of their kids for free is still not teaching them anything.

    When a school steps in like this it does take a bit of the power away from the parents. Even if unintentionally. I mean, even a well intentioned parent might look at the programs available and say, “well why not – let the school take care of it”. It makes it too easy for the parent to give up and pass the buck. So…eliminate the temptation to shove the problem elsewhere and put the parent in the position to walk their own child through this. Put some of the responsibility back on the teen mom as well.

  89. January 18, 2008 11:02 pm

    Sorry about the three in a row…I’m sleepy girl…I do want to keep this goin in the morning if your up for it! Love you guys!

  90. January 18, 2008 11:04 pm

    “I think there is great significance in the fact that our church is right across the street.”

    This is part of the reason why we are taking the opportunity.

  91. January 19, 2008 6:49 am

    Tam, I totally understand what you are saying here:

    “When a school steps in like this it does take a bit of the power away from the parents. Even if unintentionally. I mean, even a well intentioned parent might look at the programs available and say, “well why not – let the school take care of it”. It makes it too easy for the parent to give up and pass the buck. So…eliminate the temptation to shove the problem elsewhere and put the parent in the position to walk their own child through this. Put some of the responsibility back on the teen mom as well.”

    My point is that alot of these kids don’t have this type of parental guidence, nor family support so they are constantly tryng to make it on their own. Alot of times they have had this responsibility since first or second grade, and they are in survival mode as well as looking for love however and wherever they can.

    To me it’s not shoving the problem elsewhere, it helping to begin resolve a problem that started years earlier in the home. Even beyond that tho….you and I both know it only takes one time, and lives are changed forever. My hope is that the community and churches would step up, I’m glad ours is. The reality is, until that happens, I’m glad there is something for them….I hope there comes a balance some day of assuming responsibility, yet not losing all hope and getting caught up into a system of dependance on the government.

  92. January 19, 2008 10:13 am

    After reading Deb’s comment I feel like shouting “halleluja!” hahaha!

    This is such a goooooooooood thread! 😉

    Professor Tam, what will our next topic be?
    heehee Love yeeeeeeeeeeew. 😉

  93. January 19, 2008 10:25 am

    “.I hope there comes a balance some day of assuming responsibility, yet not losing all hope and getting caught up into a system of dependance on the government.”

    That is the whole point exactly! This IS dependence on the govt. It’s teaching a young mind that no matter what you do the govt will always bail you out – all you need to do is accept the free pass. That’s what I grew up in. I watched my family do this my whole life.

    There won’t come a balance if it is leaning so heavily to one side. So if “we”, church, parents, grandparents, youth, can begin offering a healthier more productive choice maybe we can tip the scales.

    But if it continues on this path I truly don’t see it as beneficial in the long whatsoever.

  94. January 19, 2008 1:20 pm

    Tam: When I got my divorce and had two babies to take care of I went through a time when I was completely abandoned by my family. They had a once your married always married attitude regardless. I am SOOOOOOOOO thankful that I was able to get government assistance for a couple of years, because there was no one else! They gave me job skills and helped me to get back on my feet when noone else would. The key is I didn’t abuse the system. There are alot of people who do, and become lazy and dependant. That is NOT what it’s designed for. Maybe there needs to be time limits and stricter rules, but I for one, until others either community or church steps up to the plate and gives a hand up (not a hand out) am very glad our government is willing to this, for me, and others who just need some hope.

    I just don’t see it as cut and dry as saying it is an excuse for girls to get pregnant by having daycare at high school. There are many more factors that tie into it.

  95. January 19, 2008 2:09 pm

    Debs, I’m not fighting against you here. I also never said that there isn’t a time or place for it either. My mother used assistance or 3 years when i was in HS. She was basically a single mom my whole life and worked her butt off. There was a short time where she needed help. So, again, I understand and relate to your example here.

    I’ve already said earlier in these comments that there needs to be limits put on govt assistance so that there isn’t any abuse and dependency. I go as far as saying that once you apply for it you should not be able to have more children while getting “free” assistance.

    But this isn’t about HS day care. Or is it? Does HS Day Care lead to more dependence on govt assistance. My bet is it can and will….and probably has. Not OK. This is my personal opinion.

    Also, regarding your last statement…this is what i said earlier,

    “so School Daycare, to me, just becomes another one of these free cards and temptations.”

    I didn’t say it gives them an excuse or is waving a permission slip in front of them. But when you plaster adult thematic situations in front of these young minds, who already have enough adult responsibilities to deal with as it is, it justifies their actions all the more.

  96. January 19, 2008 2:27 pm

    LOL, I’m not fighting either….. 😀

    This statement : “It’s teaching a young mind that no matter what you do the govt will always bail you out – all you need to do is accept the free pass.” is what I was referring to. I haven’t read all the statements sorry……a bit overwhelming so I’m probably repeating etc. When I read that statement, I remembered at my young age of 23 with the two babes, it was anything but accepting a free pass. It was humiliating, and everyone looked at you like scum of the earth because you had babies and food stamps in the store. I just remember that feeling. I understand where you’re coming from, and if we agree to disagree on parts of this it’s really ok…I couldn’t love you more….I just have a different way of thinking about it….I know that’s shocking, but I do…. LOL 😉

  97. January 19, 2008 2:34 pm

    I know Deb 😉

    You’re referring to assistance as an adult. My whole issue is teens in school getting assistance. I think that’s where the confusion is here. The free pass I was talking about in that statement didn’t have to do with 23 year old single mama’s falling on hard times and using it temporarily. It was referring to teens in school only.

    Anyway…In light of that – I don’t think we’re really in disagreement here.

  98. January 19, 2008 2:45 pm

    I know, I was just giving another example of Government assistance and the importance of it at times. I feel the same applies to schools as well with pregnant teens. I also feel that if the community and not just churches….but the community started getting volunteers who had skills to teach these lost kids the skills they need, and love on them to maybe show them a better way that they haven’t experienced, it would make all the difference. There are plenty of resources beyond the government in finances, skills and love that if implemented by the community could eventually do away with government assistance. Just a thought…..

  99. January 19, 2008 5:02 pm

    The provision of welfare should be a safety net for people in need.

    Arguments in favour of providing material aid:

    – It is considered a fundamental human right to receive the basic necessities of life. Denying this provision is intolerable.
    – As members of society we have a moral obligation to support people who cannot help themselves
    – It is utilitarian to provide small amounts to the less well off as the taxes taken from the wealthy won’t be missed as much as they have more. The same amount of money will produce greater happiness in the hands of the poor.
    – Religion emphasizes social obligation above individual need. Among these obligations include the duty of charity and the obligation for solidarity.
    – Economically providing a short term aid is more cost effective than allowing someone to go without education, family and work.
    – the money the state provides comes from the nation’s labor and natural resources through universal taxation, the rich manages the wealth that is often inherited, and do not necessarily contribute more than the average worker, therefore it is a matter of justice to provide for the private individual who cannot legally provide to himself. Further, there will also be members of societies who through disability, health problems, or other causes out of the individual’s control, are unable to provide for themselves.
    – economy of scale may show that a day care centre is cheaper to run than individual state supported day care.
    – people with low incomes when provided with state assistance are not inclined to resort to crime to stay alive. Empirical evidence indicates that welfare programs reduce property crime.

    Arguments against providing material aid:

    – The “nanny state” forces the individual to subsidize others.
    – Allowing people to live off the state reduces the compulsion to contribute to the state.
    – It is not religiously virtuous to take charity payments from people. Instead the virtuous act is voluntary. A welfare system reduced the development of the virtue.
    – The welfare state is accused of imposing greater burdens on private businesses, of potentially slowing growth and creating unemployment.
    – It is inefficient to provide for those members of society who do not contribute to it. According to Friedrich Hayek, the market mechanism is much more efficient and able to respond to specific circumstances of a large number of individuals than when run by the state.
    – the welfare state may have undesirable effects on behavior, fostering dependency, destroying incentives and sapping motivation to work.
    – by the state assuming a larger burden for the financial care of people, individuals may feel it is no longer necessary for them to donate to charities or give to philanthropies.
    – State provided welfare normally incurs high tax economy, this in turn leads to people feeling protective over their earnings and therefore looking for ways to cheat the tax system to pay less tax. This in turn reduces overall morality. People dependent on welfare have been found by surveys to be more depressed and have a lower self esteem than working people, this in turn often leads to them feeling rejected, hopeless and/or abandoned by the populace at large, therefore they have a lower self of national unity of community responsibility and may turn to crime to get back at society or just fill the time.
    – A state funded benefit system is open to abuse with people fraudulently claiming when they are not in need.
    – A bureaucracy is required to manage the welfare system.

    Sorry for such a long post and so much information. There is certainly a balance to maintain between helping people become productive, moral members of society with some assistance and trapping people in a dependency.

    I don’t think that anyone believes that we shouldn’t help people in need. It is just the best way to do this both in the short and in the long term.

  100. Nevin permalink
    January 20, 2008 1:19 pm


  101. January 21, 2008 6:02 pm

    “Is this such a bad idea? Is this asking too much? Is it not fair? I’m sorry for the girl who has to miss out on going to HS – it is unfortunate. I’m sorry that they made a poor choice. I know it’s scary. But they need to shoulder responsibility…bottom line.”

    I agree with you for the most part…I’m just thinking of those girls who didn’t have a choice in the matter of their pregnancy due to poor circumstances…ie rape. Those put in bad situations, which result in pregnancy, shouldn’t be punished b/c the majority of the unwed underage moms didn’t think about consequences or care. Those are the girls that need any and all help we can offer. The ones who don’t think about the results of their consenting activity….underage or not, should shoulder the responsibility of being a mom.

    We married folk, who plan a family, still bear the burden of working and taking care of kids. Those young women should learn the school of hard knocks, but with them being that young it puts the babies in danger of being uncared for due to their mom’s circumstances.

    For this reason, I think those day care centers are whats best for the babies in question. I think it’s important to make sure that the children’s needs are being met. Who knows what their circumstances are like before and after school. Are they being fed or cared for? These daycare school programs may be the only quality care they recieve!? Sorry…I’m babbling & probably not making any sense.

  102. January 22, 2008 7:54 pm

    Before this the comments were 101.

    Babies Having Babies:101

  103. January 22, 2008 7:58 pm

    Oh my goodness Bran!

    Step away from the computer


  104. January 22, 2008 9:55 pm

    😉 never!

  105. January 23, 2008 12:23 pm

    Babies: 101…LOL! Thats funny.

  106. January 24, 2008 7:41 am

    Looks like a lot of feelings on this. I have some of the same opinions as you but I also feel like the reality may help some make a different decision. It’s one thing to see a child on someone’s hip and another to see the work involved. Maybe the kids will see the work. Also I feel for the child who does make a mistake and then they aren’t even entitled to an education. At least our society is saying that education is important and that they will finish it despite their choices. Then once they graduate they must go into reality but at least during that time they are protected from losing out on an education.
    It’s a tough one for sure!

  107. January 27, 2008 1:27 pm

    Here’s another question to throw in there… if these things are true about public schools, should Christian kids be going to them? 🙂 Of course, I’m biased since I homeschool my kids. And I willingly admit that there are some teens who are homeschooled who get pregnant, too – there are bad things everywhere…

    But I hear about a lot fewer issues from the moms of teens I know in our co-ops and on our email lists. We have 60 families in our co-op and in the past 3 years I only know of one teen homeschooler that had a baby out of wedlock who was homeschooled.

    The first commentor was correct in their statement that:

    “It MIGHT encourage sexual behavior in teens, but so does music, tv, magazines, peers, heck even PARENTS now days put their teen daughters on the pill “just in case.””

    Take for instance (explaining my reasoning) this quote by H. Clay Trumbull in his book Hints On Child Training written in 1890 (back when America still had some morality):

    “Because a child’s companionships are so influential, it is the more important that they be closely watched and carefully guided by the child’s parents. It is a parent’s duty to know who are his child’s companions, and to know the character, and of course the conduct, and influence upon his child, of every one of those companions separately. Here is where a parent’s chief work is called for in the matter of guiding and controlling his child’s companionships… To neglect this agency of a child’s training, would be to endanger his entire career in life, whatever else were done in his behalf.”

    *God calls us to keep our children away from:
    1. Fools (Prov. 13:20, 22:15)
    2. Unbelievers – not yoked together with them (2 Cor. 6:14)
    3. Immoral (1 Cor. 15:33)
    4. False Teachers (2 Tim. 2:16-19)

    That list is from Clay and Sally Clarkson’s Educating the WholeHearted Child.

    I can promise you that they will encounter all four types of people in a public school. You as a parent have little to no control over anything that happens each day in the classroom, the hallway, the lunch room, the bus… etc.

    I know this. I grew up in public schools like most American kids. I skipped school, did drugs, got pregnant, had an abortion, snuck out my window… and that was a long time ago – before pregnancy was “in” at school. We had only ONE teen in my high school who got pregnant. She got married to the football quarterback subsiquently and stayed home for the rest of her senior year – out of sight (because people talked about her). It wasn’t acceptable to be a druggy, a punk, or pregnant back then… but it happened. Having daycare and handing out condoms is not the way to teach kids that they are outside of God’s will. Neither is letting your children be privy to the “fruits of darkness” every day – paraded before them in the halls at school.

    Wow. I never intended to write a book. Not sure why that struck such a cord with me. I’m forwarding your article to my friend who writes an online magazine for teen girls…

    I think she is going to cover the topic soon. I read an article about baby “bling” in Hollywood recently and that is what struck my interest in your article. The article said that pregnancy has become the new “bling” in Hollywood and I think that seeing all these young unwed moms with babies stuck to their hips in Beverly Hills is not helping out the kids in the American public school halls.

    However, if the mistake is made… I am certainly not for abortion. That is a mistake that is hard to forgive yourself for.

  108. January 27, 2008 5:08 pm

    Sprittibee! Welcome! Thanks for sharing your thoughts here! As you can see this was a topic that interested many and all had a great thoughts and opinions on it. It was great to see so many perspectives!

    My daughter used to go to a Private Christian School…and she asked me one day… “Mom, who am I suppose to share Christ with if I’m never around people who need Him?” Pretty profound and thoughtful for a 1st grader 🙂 But she was right. Both my kids are in public schools and are a very strong presence and voice for what they believe in. My son keeps a bible in his back pack and every once in a while breaks it out on the bus ride home. That is so cool!

    “*God calls us to keep our children away from:
    1. Fools (Prov. 13:20, 22:15)
    2. Unbelievers – not yoked together with them (2 Cor. 6:14)
    3. Immoral (1 Cor. 15:33)
    4. False Teachers (2 Tim. 2:16-19)

    I can promise you that they will encounter all four types of people in a public school.”

    Yup…and private Christian ones too! You’d be surprised. The world outside is full of this. I think what’s important is that for our kids we prepare them for the inevitable – the day when they face these harsh realities for themselves. With each piece of bad news that hits us, like these young teen stars getting pregnant, going into rehab, it’s a great opportunity to talk with our young ones. A great opportunity to show them cause and effect – consequences. Its a tough job isn’t it? Exhausting actually – but so worth it! 😉

    I have never experienced Homeschooling at all. I’ve always told my kids if I ever had to Home school them they’d be the dumbest kids in Oregon 😯 All the people I know who Home school absolutely love it and can’t imagine doing it any other way! They say it takes a lot of work and it’s a whole different world. But it’s the perfect thing for their family. My hats off to you!

    Thanks for sending this to your friend. If they get nothing from the post they may get a lot from some of the comments 😉

    Glad you stopped by! That story about your son in the car is priceless! Loved it!

  109. January 27, 2008 6:51 pm

    Thanks for your response. I love to see faithful Christian parents who are devoted to sharing Jesus with their kids – no matter what type of school/unschool/homeschool they go to. We’ve done hotel school and carschool, too. 🙂 Yes it is work (hardest thing I have ever done), but I do love it.

    I have been to Oregon when I was a little kid… some pristine lake with A-frame cottages that I can still remember even though I was like 2 years old. It was so beautiful. My grandparents lived in Washington and I was blessed enough to get to visit them there a few times before they died. That part of the country is so pretty.

    I was drawn in to your blog through a comment you made on someone else’s blog… your photo is great – that smile is genuine and contagious. Keep smiling and laughing with your kids – and sharing Jesus. 🙂 Nice to meet you, too!

  110. January 27, 2008 8:13 pm

    “We’ve done hotel school and carschool,”

    Well you’ve got me curious now girl! Never heard of those before…

    Yes, Oregon is beautiful! We just got some snow tonight. Gorgeous! I’m actually a Southern California girl at heart. I’m much more at home on a beach! Aahhhh….

    And the same to you – our kids need us to share His light and truth with them daily. We’re all in it together!

    Have a great week!

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