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men

July 8, 2009

this last weekend our pastor spoke to men. and he spoke to them rather harshly. theres a link below for you to listen to in a sec. but it got me thinking about all the men i have been subjected to in my life.

men…do you realize that every little girl dreams of being safe? every little girl dreams of being cuddled by her husband as her children run about the room? every little girl dreams of being held at the end of the day and whispered to, “i love you”? do you realize this? do you, really?

but, this dream does not flesh itself out for every little girl.

i wont make this about what i received as a child. but i will say that i saw too many men in my life abuse their “power” while abusing my mother. leaving her black and blue and bloody.

i got to be a punching bag for some of them too. i bear the physical scars today as a reminder.

i then went on to find a man just like all of them. my first marriage was abusive…it ended with him taking a shotgun to himself. ending his life.

is this really what its supposed to be like? men…can you sit there and tell us this is what a woman deserves?

i am not angry. but i am passionate about this. we, women, are not below you. we are your equal. we are human. we are people.

are we perfect? no. not one of us are. are we worthy of love, respect and protection? you betcha life on it!

show us you love us. show us you would die for us.

grow some and be the man of God you were created to be.

love, tam ๐Ÿ˜€

ok. now on to the serious stuff. men, and women, go here. select “on demand” then select the july5th/6th message and fast forward to the 38:00 minute mark. its short and to the point. the notes to the message are provided on the site.

come back and discuss if youd like. youd like, wouldnt you? ๐Ÿ˜‰

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141 Comments leave one →
  1. July 8, 2009 9:34 pm

    LOVE this post. This is exactly why God calls husbands to LOVE their wives as we are to RESPECT them.

    Men… you have a huge God ordained job. Wow!

    • July 8, 2009 9:37 pm

      “Menโ€ฆ you have a huge God ordained job”

      yes they do.

      as do we.

      now, if we would only work together on this.

      love you!

      • July 8, 2009 9:45 pm

        This is where I’m glad I’m a woman. Though I am beyond certain I will have my own judgment day, men really have a lot riding on them.

        Men really have to look God face-to-face one day and God will ask, “Did you have YOUR best interest in your wife, your children, you family, your church? Did you protect, care and love for them as I would have since I LOANED them to you?”

  2. July 8, 2009 9:39 pm

    I am so honored to know you and experience life with you.

    I am a better man because of you.

    • July 9, 2009 9:51 am

      Brent, after reading that, you’d BETTER honor her! (grin)

      Seriously, Tam, way to call us up.

      • July 9, 2009 10:03 am

        fred – he does honor me. truly ๐Ÿ™‚ i am way beyond blessed. and i shudder to think of all the times i have taken him for granted.

  3. tobinshack permalink
    July 8, 2009 9:45 pm

    Tam,
    Well said. Its so sad to see what this world has become. Yes, I have seen it to but not to the degree you have. There defiantly is something that makes a real man and that is Love. Pastor Tom was right on last week in his sermon. Love cures all. That was set by example from the beginning. That’s why Jesus walked this earth in human form. So that we may learn first hand how to love as a human. To Love one another as he loves us. For he gave his son for us. NOW THATS A REAL MAN!

    I feel bad sometimes because I cant always be there for my daughter since I’m divorced and it breaks my heart. But you can sure bet when I have the opportunity to be a Father to her, I WILL. I will love her like a real man. Like the man I love, the man I pray to and adore with every breath I take.

    May God’s grace rain down on the men in our society. May the Love he has for us, soak into our hearts and that our actions reflect that everyday until we go home to our first Love.

    AMEN

    • July 9, 2009 10:04 am

      “I will love her like a real man. Like the man I love, the man I pray to and adore with every breath I take.”

      THAT is the best thing you can do for her. in any way you can, from wherever you are. you can do this. and she will be a better woman for it.

  4. July 8, 2009 9:49 pm

    I like it. I think that men as a whole, in the church and out, need a wake up call. Manhood has been twisted and warped into a self-fulfilling lust fest, (be it sex, money, power, whatever), instead of the way it was intended. It doesn’t take a Biblical scholar or theologian to take a look around and say that something is wrong here. Each lustful desire achieved is less satisfying and we think that we need more of it to be satisfied; what we don’t realize is that what we’re doing is shackling ourselves to this way of life and then passing it on…

    Only a savior can break this cycle. Only Christ can break this cycle.

    • July 9, 2009 10:05 am

      amen. preach it!

      seriously…thank you for leaving this comment.

  5. July 8, 2009 11:08 pm

    “grow some and be the man of God you were created to be.”?

    yes dear – whatever you say dear.

    <B

    • July 9, 2009 10:05 am

      yup. and by that statement i mean…it isnt a man who treats a woman this way. it is a coward. so, grow some.

      • July 9, 2009 8:50 pm

        it is my observation that many men – all of whom HAVE ‘some’ find that when they ‘act’ like they ‘have some’, their women really don’t like the way ‘they’ are being expressed and make it very clear to their ‘other half’ – and in the abscence of a ‘better’ role model, (that they could ever actually live up to, as opposed to a ‘PERFECT’ Man who was without ANY sin) in an attempt to please and find some form of ‘acceptance’ from the one he has committed to, he reverses ‘his role’ (that he has been TOLD is not accept’ble) and lets the ‘stronger’ half keep hers and takes the ‘vacant place’ left when the woman exercised HER Authority’ over his.

        Not what i or the Bible would recommend but most definitely the act of human beings who no longer have any clear idea of just how to behave in a world that is making ‘change’ it’s new God.

        and i can assure you Tam – telling a man to ‘grow some’ and that he is a coward is NOT going to help anyone.

        it is roughly the equivalent of a man telling a woman her ‘place’ is barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen – not ‘productive’ in the least.

        i well understand your feelings concerning SOME males and that in those cases you may well have had valid reasons to feel ‘concerned’ and justified in making the comments you have.

        i truly doubt a single one of those men – or those like them – will ever read your thoughts here, however.

        And as for the ‘reasoning’ behind that ‘suggestion’…. Testosterone is the ‘Male’ hormone produced by the testes and ovaries (men typically have 40-60 times the amount than women do). It is the hormone that controls a man’s ‘aggressiveness’ and ‘masculinity’.

        It is in part the reason some ‘vulnearable’ women who feel a ‘need’ for protection of a STRONG male are attracted to a ‘certain type’ of man.

        i really don’t think ‘growing some’ is the best suggestion you could make for men to ensure they have a BETTER relationship with God and their Wives.

        Regardless of what Jim said.

        Learning humility and how to take responsibility and accepting our ‘roles’ in life will not be a factor of the size of one’s cojones – Physical or metaphorical.

        <B

  6. July 9, 2009 12:33 am

    I am sorry I can’t see the video feed. I suspect it might be because I am in another country (That happens sometimes.) The sermon notes look good.

    I am constantly horrified and pained by the “men” we have running around. So few seem to realise that being a Man is a duty and responsibility, not a privilege. If that Ephesians reading tells us anything it’s that being a man has nothing to do with her being weak, and everything to do with us needing to be strong.

    I constantly pray that God will give me the strength to be a Man, when it is so much easier to just be a male.

    • July 9, 2009 10:07 am

      it is a duty, responsibility – not a privilege.

      i couldnt agree more. and we, women, know it is not easy for you men. but…it is worth it. in the here and now and the tomorrows.

  7. July 9, 2009 1:18 am

    No, I cannot sit here and tell you this is what you deserve. Because you don’t… It’s that simple that men mess up, the enemy gets in and through men screws up their kids lives. I wish it was possible to say sorry for the sins of men, to be part of a new holy/separate generation, but I know how ever hard I try I will still make some of the same mistakes, my kids will be hurt because of me how ever much I love them. I just pray that I have the humility to repent when I screw up.

    I want to be a part of a generation of Godly Men that love, serve and lead as they should. Now that’s something I could give my life to see happen.

    Blesses
    Nathan

    • July 9, 2009 10:11 am

      what i love about your words is the clarity of your heart. that you acknowledge not only youre not perfect, who is?!, but that you recognize it and refuse to settle for it. you obviously know there is much at stake here. i cant think of anything better, really. so thank you.

  8. July 9, 2009 1:26 am

    May I repost this at Philter48 in the under the Men’s catagory?

    Let me know. I am off to “Grow some”

    Peace and Love

    • July 9, 2009 10:11 am

      well, of course you can. you never have to ask ๐Ÿ™‚

  9. July 9, 2009 2:07 am

    Maybe it’s just me, but I feel the need to point this out:

    A job doesn’t make you a man. A job doesn’t make you the leader of your family. The lack of a job doesn’t make you a wife, nor does it make you weak….man or woman. Money doesn’t make you a man or a leader.
    You can lead your family…emotionally, physically, spiritually and financially, without having either of those mentioned above.
    I seriously get tired of hearing otherwise. Rarely is it said….only implied. Like I said, maybe it’s jut me. I can promise you though that if my wife and kids were to take a vote on the dad and husband they desire…..They would choose this one 10 times over the guy who worked 70 hours a week and made tons of money.

  10. Rick permalink
    July 9, 2009 3:28 am

    strong post – left one thing out maybe: “love us – die for us” and I would add “live for us” in the notion of giving my living and not holding selfishly to me/my/mine. might lay down life, but can i also lay down my living? that’s what i want to make sure come out from me to my wife and forward to the kids.

    • Jim2 permalink
      July 9, 2009 7:38 am

      Excellent point, Rick – that daily sacrifice is of extreme importance – it’s a different kind of dying – dying to self in order to truly live.

      • Rick permalink
        July 9, 2009 8:06 am

        Thanks, and it plays out like that. I might pride myself on “taking a bullet for you” or providing/etc for the family. But if I won’t get up to fix you a cup of coffee and miss a football play or two, it’s a noisy cymbal ๐Ÿ™‚

    • July 9, 2009 10:13 am

      mmmm- thats good. yes…i would add that too!

  11. July 9, 2009 4:15 am

    I think it goes beyond physical abuse. I could never hit a woman. (I actually got stabbed by a woman, and held her down until she calmed down)

    But, my mom taught me a much better form of abuse that I’ve ignored for years… My words. As a little guy (Before I got fat) My words were my defense. I could take anyone down with my words. Anyone.

    I still catch bits of that with my wife.. where I say something hurtful, and realize… I’m just like my mom. And it kills me. It’s one of my struggles, as I’ve said before and I am working on it.. Thank GOD I have a wife that knows I struggle, and a wife who doesn’t take any crap from me, and calls me out when I’m being that guy.

    Thank you for this post.. it’s a great reminder!

    • July 9, 2009 10:14 am

      it does go beyond the physical, youre right. theres mental, emotional, verbal, sexual…the whole 9 nine yards. and its all an abuse of “power”. and it sickens me. AND…some women abuse their “power” too. its just as wrong.

    • July 9, 2009 9:02 pm

      ‘where I say something hurtful, and realizeโ€ฆ Iโ€™m just like my mom.’

      Andy – You might be one of the very few men who could realise and admit that… but you so are not the only one who Does it and for the same ‘reason’.

      i think it is far more common than any want to recognise. When people say things that hurt – some people can do nothing else but get angry and lash out… with whatever means and force (and desire for ‘revenge’) is available to them.

      if you are a larger, stronger physical being it is likely to be with your hands… if you are smaller it is likely to be with more subtle, but no less hurtful, means.

      And the cycle repeats and perhaps even ‘grows’…

      ๐Ÿ˜ฆ

      <B

      • July 10, 2009 5:00 am

        Thank you for this comment.

        When I see Andrea’s face when I say something hurtful, It kills me.

        Let me add, I don’t do this often, just when I lose my temper..

        I love my wife, and do everything I can to protect her, and I would die for her… no question there.

        Thank you Tam for calling us all out on this. It’s a call to be greater, and i can say, I take the challenge.

  12. July 9, 2009 6:09 am

    Well said.

    Though from my perspective (as a man), if my wife told me this exactly the way you typed it I might get the feeling she was trying to wear the pants…which isn’t necessarily a bad thing, I don’t know.

    Either way, we as men DO need to love, live, and die for our women (wives, daughters, sisters) and be as much like Christ, with HIS strength, day in and day out as we possibly can.

    I agree with the above poster who said that we should LIVE for our wives as well. I think that really shows in the little things. Some of the seemingly dreamy things that little girls long for are the very things that I should be pursuing (within reason) to SHOW my wife that I love her. Little “I love yous.” Meaningful intentional touches throughout the day. Thoughtful actions such as cooking meals, cleaning, dishes, taking out the trash, vacuuming, etc. Flowers are nice, but if the only time I ever give her flowers are on Valentine’s Day or to say sorry…that’s not quite cutting it.

    And guys, if you don’t already know this, sex doesn’t make everything ok.

    • July 9, 2009 10:17 am

      ha! i could see how it would look like im wearing the pants in this post. but if i can continue to be honest here…sometimes, it DOES take a woman to get all up in her mans grill with this. its unfortunate. but its reality. we have a voice.

      “And guys, if you donโ€™t already know this, sex doesnโ€™t make everything ok.”

      Yes! but i would also add to the women…

      women…sex is not a tool to be withheld to manipulate your man.

      • July 9, 2009 11:15 pm

        “to get all up in her mans grill” ๐Ÿ˜ฏ HAHAHAHA! Oh dear lord…. LOL!

        (back to silent reading now)

  13. Christina Hartwell permalink
    July 9, 2009 7:22 am

    My Sweet Tam,

    My heart always breaks a little when I think of you with those scars you don’t deserve. Yet, I think of this passionate woman that it made – with a voice! I think as a society we have let men off the hook – with the “we are equals and women can do everything just as good” schtick…you know there is a God given reality that was built into a man. The leader, the protector, the provider and the FATHER of the home. And it is a serious place to be, it is one to prepare for, to pray about and to be taught at the side of their father, uncles and brothers. MEN if you are a good father, brother, uncle, grandfather…start teaching and pouring into those around you. We as women cannot do it – we can only ask that you join us in recognizing the need – but you must be HIS hands and feet.

    Tam thank you for your voice – I love you deeply!

    c

    • July 9, 2009 10:00 am

      “MEN if you are a good father, brother, uncle, grandfatherโ€ฆstart teaching and pouring into those around you. We as women cannot do it โ€“ we can only ask that you join us in recognizing the need”

      that is a seriously much needed call out to men!

      thank you for that.

      love you!

    • July 9, 2009 9:04 pm

      Amen! Christina.

      very well said.

      <B

  14. July 9, 2009 7:44 am

    From another perspective… speaking to dad’s: I’m a girl who, because of life circumstances, will never be married. But through my dating life I made good choices, and now in my permanently-single life I am a confident woman who is ok with that outcome. I credit that completely and totally because I HAD A LOVING DAD. I have never doubted for a moment that I was loved and made special by him. I didn’t have to look anywhere else for that, ever. And I was secure because he showed us every.single.day. how much he loved my mom. Seeing them dance in the kitchen was a nightly thing … and that shaped not just who I wanted to be with someday, but who I am on my own.

    Be the man to your daughter that you want her to have as a husband someday. It makes a difference.

    • July 9, 2009 9:59 am

      gitz – what a blessing your dad is. he should stand up and tell other men how to do it right. and im not saying the majority dont, or dont have a clue. but men like your dad just might be rare.

    • July 9, 2009 11:19 pm

      ugh, out of all the comments so far… this just made me cry!

      Gitz, I did not have that and I looked for it everywhere all the time. I told Jake just yesterday I am lucky to have ended up with him considering all the LOSERS before him b/c I ran to anyone that gave me a second look, a moment of their time, a kind word…even if it was just bait. To feel loved and adored and wanted and special….even if just for a little while….is all any girl, no matter her age, wants. And if she doesn’t get it at home (this includes daughters and wives) she’ll go find it elsewhere. Not neccessarily in another person, but in some form she will fill that void. Sad.

    • July 10, 2009 3:18 pm

      Gitz, that is HUGE. I cannot even say … well, perhaps I don’t have to. You understand. But SO huge. I had just such a loving Dad, and am married. Seriously … How my Dad loved me has saved our marriage. I am 100% not kidding. I would not be strong enough to face and do what I am doing right now, if my Dad hadn’t loved me the way he did. I mean … I know God is able, regardless of circumstance (Tam is a wonderful case in point), but … yes, yes yes. This is absolutely … 1001% underestimated by most men/dads.

  15. July 9, 2009 9:16 am

    man, that is such a good post and a good point. Even the women that dont act like they want that and may have been jaded by past relationships or men in general.

    I have so much respect for you and the things you have been through and the amazing story you have to share and have conversations with women who are where you were.

    But i think the most respectable characteristic in a man is how he loves his wife…how he talks to her, how he treats her…the love in his eyes that you can tell that he would do anything for her.

    • July 9, 2009 9:58 am

      thank you. wow. just, thank you…

      “But i think the most respectable characteristic in a man is how he loves his wife”

      that gave me goose bumps. you are SO right on with that assessment.

  16. July 9, 2009 9:43 am

    great job girl. amazing post & much needed.

    Later,
    T

  17. July 9, 2009 9:46 am

    Remember the comment I made about women being God’s ‘daughters’ and that we should treat the women in our lives as such? I kind of stole that from Mark Driscoll. What you’re saying is kind of along the lines of what he is saying here. If you want to see a man throwing down the gauntlet to other men, take a few minutes and watch:

  18. July 9, 2009 9:47 am

    POWERFUL.

    • July 9, 2009 10:20 am

      and know…that i know we women can be just as much a fault. we ALL need to get right with HIM so we can get right with each other.

      • July 9, 2009 9:10 pm

        ‘we ALL need to get right with HIM so we can get right with each other.’

        NOW your talking! ๐Ÿ™‚

        This is why i am no longer a ‘committed’ Atheist.. they don’t have the desire or ‘need’ or history of this kind of ‘Uniformity through Diversity’.

        i no longer believe that ‘mankind’ is a ‘sufficient’ means of bringing us all together.

        <B

  19. July 9, 2009 9:52 am

    good words. and what a perspective you have offered!

    i have been thinking a bit about how i have and am relating to my 5 year old daughter. i SOOOO want her to know that she is safe and loved and cuddly and beautiful and special and everything else that would esteem her with all the grace and blessings that God has to offer her through me.

    *gulp* i’m tearing-up thinking about how far short I fall in the “perfect dad” category and how much I want to love on her anyway.

    thanks for sharing with, reminding and challenging us often poopy-headed men. ๐Ÿ˜‰

    • July 9, 2009 9:56 am

      and i am tearing up just knowing that you desire to be that kind of daddy to her. pete, thank you! thank you for being a godly man. you have no idea how much that will empower your daughter.

    • July 9, 2009 10:10 am

      Something that I learned from my Pastor was to often do the following for BOTH of my kids (girl and boy). Before going to bed at night, I tell them the following three things:

      1. I love you
      2. I’m proud of you
      3. You’re good at __________

      I find that my son appreciates #2 the most. He loves hearing that his Dad is proud of him. My daughter favors #3 as she wants that encouragement for the things she does.

  20. lazrus2 permalink
    July 9, 2009 10:00 am

    Thanks for the info. about accessing the videos ‘on demand’. I didn’t know that was possible and missed hearing it last weekend ( I get to watch Nick jump around too =).

    I usually listen online, but it wasn’t posted this week for some reason. We discuss it at our link group, so a few of us were ‘in the dark’ until the discussion got going last night. It ended up being sort of a ‘group counseling’ session, but all good =). I’ll watch/listen the next chance I get, but we have more company coming in this PM, so it may be awhile.

    I’m blessed to not have to deal with what many women have/do, but Nick can be ‘intense’ at times, I’m sure you’ve noticed (no ‘verbal abuse’ by any means though – just keeping me ‘accountable’ as he should =)!

    D-

    • July 9, 2009 10:02 am

      i dont know why its not on the site either. i wanted to link to that one too. but then thought that the video might be better…Tom gets pretty “demonstrative” in it. it needs to be seen as well as heard.

  21. July 9, 2009 10:42 am

    I’m sitting here thinking about the emotional, and sometimes verbal, abuse I laid on the doorstep of my wife and kids during my years of pornography addiction and it wrecks me. Every.time. It wrecks me. And, I am so grateful that I am not that man, not that husband, not that father anymore. I’m so grateful to be married to a woman whose grace is only surpassed by that of the Father. I’m so grateful for a Savior who gave me a second chance to get things right. I always thought that I was simply a product of my difficult childhood, programmed to be a failure as a man with no one to model myself after, a victim of generational curses that would always keep me bound. But, God said “NO! The cycle ends with YOU! The pain ends with YOU! The curses will be lifted! The chains will be broken! The past will be forgotten! The future will be hopeful! You WILL become the man I made you to be.”

    There are no excuses, men. Not when you know Christ. There are no excuses. Feminism might make us feel dispensable. The media might make us feel like caricatures. The church might overlook us. But, God makes it clear. There are. no. excuses.

    • July 9, 2009 10:48 am

      i am jumpin out of my seat on this one!

      INCREDIBLY SAID!!!

      youre right…we do NOT have to repeat the cycle. i dont know how many times i have shared that with others. we do not have to play the victim anymore.

      mmm, youve just spoken a good word here, friend. thank you!

  22. July 9, 2009 11:02 am

    I gotta say too (and maybe this is a different post)…

    … but WOMEN… it’s our job to be that supporter, helping lift our men TO that bar that God has called them to. We can’t nag and tear them down and HOPE they’ll step up. They need our respect. Our calling it to gently “push” or lift them up. The more we as women support, respect and love our men, the more they’ll WANT to be THAT for us. Sometimes, that means HOLDING OUR TONGUES from the negative and only saying what they did well OUTLOUD.

    I’m saying this MOSTLY to myself more than anyone else out there.

    • July 9, 2009 11:23 am

      amen to that. and that is basically the post i did last week to women. i also posted our pastors message to wives then too.

      youre right, it takes two to accomplish great things. we have to know our part and own them! and live them out accordingly.

      can you imagine if we all really did that? wow, what a change thered be!

  23. July 9, 2009 12:31 pm

    i hope you all have watched the vid. the real good stuff, the needed stuff, is there!

    trust me. watch it. its short. its impacting. its needed.

  24. July 9, 2009 12:54 pm

    thanks for being so authentic….

    we have a 2 year old daughter…and I can’t imagine providing those things for her (safety, love, etc.). i pray and hope that I’m the husband and father that I’m supposed to be.

    thanks for the reminder.

    rhett

    • July 9, 2009 1:54 pm

      the fact that you want to be is huge. in my opinion. therefor, i believe, that is what you will strive for. and from the little i know of you…im sure your little girl is a very blessed one!

  25. July 9, 2009 1:32 pm

    Great writing, but I have to say I can’t completely agree. I think at least some girls would be bored with being “held” and “cuddled”. Some girls might wish for what you describe, but there are others who want drama. They continue to start and end relationships because that’s the part of it they enjoy. I’m not judging anyone, just my two-cents.

    • July 9, 2009 1:40 pm

      So do you see yourself as the guy that should “give” these “drama wanting” woman what they enjoy???

      I am sorry if this is harsh, but you obviously didn’t read this post. Grow some Dan and treat women with respect as God intended. It doesn’t matter what you think they are or what you think they want. Do what’s right.

    • July 9, 2009 1:42 pm

      as little girls, i believe this IS what we all dream about. now…the in between stage that brings them to womanhood might in fact push them in a direction of manipulation and abusing relationships, which i think you are somewhat saying, so…i agree with that. but that isnt how it started off for them. i assure you. and im not so sure they “enjoy” it either. i happen to know that the mask thats used for self destruction is not even close to enjoyable.

    • July 9, 2009 1:51 pm

      Dan, I have to apologize, because I know my response i harsh. But I was blown away by your comment. Your comment made me believe that you would be one of these guys that would treat women poorly. I pray this isn’t so.

      We, as men, have to be responsible for ourselves.. We can’t blame others for our issues and insecurities. Especially women. we have no right to treat anyone poorly and even more so, the opposite sex. I am passionate about calling men out when I see it, because I’ve watched men destroy women.

      Dan, if you are this kind of man, I am praying that you will see what you are doing and change. If you are not, I apologize for calling you out.

    • July 9, 2009 1:54 pm

      Dan… i don’t really like being “held” or “cuddled”… but it’s not because that’s not how i was created. i was really hurt as a child and LEARNED that those things were a sign of weakness. have you thought maybe the reason “some girls” act this way is because they were wronged/abused/hurt as children? i can guarantee you that though i AM “stronger” in appearance, i’m a complete mess inside.

      And there’s MY two cents.

      • July 9, 2009 2:29 pm

        I join in what Jenni is saying. It is because of the hurts i experienced growing up. But bottom line when i have had a hard day i just want my husband to hug and cuddle me. it is comforting and safe.

        “i can guarantee you that though i AM โ€œstrongerโ€ in appearance, iโ€™m a complete mess inside” – me too! but we try and have the hard ass appearance to protect us…but deep down we just want the safety that comes in the hug of a strong man.

        my 2 cents.

      • July 14, 2009 11:28 am

        ditto. i knew liked Asians.

    • July 10, 2009 4:17 pm

      Right on, replies. I’ll echo (hopefully not harshly) Brent, and say that if the ‘drama loving’ women were ‘ok,’ then as Scripture states, this model has to be also applied to Christ and the church. So if you turn it that way, then Jesus must be ‘ok’ with a bride that wants disruptive and destructive relationships because she is somehow ‘fed’ off of the drama. Sound theology? I don’t think so.

  26. July 9, 2009 1:50 pm

    dang. i freaking love you, woman!

    • July 9, 2009 1:56 pm

      dang. i freaking love you too!!! ๐Ÿ˜‰

  27. July 9, 2009 3:54 pm

    tam…great post. This is an EPIC problem. My passion is to not only call men out and up but to show them how. Robert Lewis (Fellowship Bible-Little Rock) has done an oustanding 24 week study (this is deep work when done right) that helps men see this and gives us a real bibical def of manhood. It’s simple…an authentic man is a man that 1)REJECTS PASSIVITY 2)ACCEPTS RESPONSIBILITY 3)LEADS COURAGEOUSLY and expects God’s reward.
    thanks…i was blessed and moved

    • July 9, 2009 9:12 pm

      im glad you have a passion to call men out on this. seriously, how many of us really hold each other accountable to matters such as this? this is vitally important and crucial to lives. and sadly, i have found the church not speaking to it enough either. hopefully, we’re beginning to wake up. at least, i hope so.

    • July 9, 2009 9:22 pm

      VERY clearly (to me, based on this assessment measure) i am NOT an Authentic man.

      i might want to follow Christ’s ‘lead’ but obviously there is a long long way to go to even come ‘close’.

      you heard it first here folks.

      <B

      • July 10, 2009 3:41 am

        not a measure but a path…

        • July 12, 2009 10:42 pm

          so then perhaps it might nave been more correct to write: ‘ a biblical PATH to manhood….’ than a ‘biblical def(inition) of manhood’?

          sometimes it is little mistakes we humans make that leads to others committing ‘error’ and then it ‘snowballs’.

          <B

          • July 13, 2009 3:35 am

            I am sorry…I was wrong. It is a definition, a measure and a path for me. Kind of like being inprogress. Thanks for the correction. And by the way…I am further away from it than you are.

            • July 13, 2009 12:23 pm

              actually i, personally, dont think you were “wrong” at all. perhaps it was just misread? not sure, really.

              either way –

              “an authentic man is a man that 1)REJECTS PASSIVITY 2)ACCEPTS RESPONSIBILITY 3)LEADS COURAGEOUSLY and expects Godโ€™s reward.”

              looks pretty good to me.

              ๐Ÿ˜‰

    • Jim2 permalink
      July 10, 2009 5:39 am

      Robert Lewis has some great studies – I’ve taken this one and it is very eye-opening and right on point!

    • July 10, 2009 4:18 pm

      Thank you E!

  28. Jennifer permalink
    July 9, 2009 3:56 pm

    This is such a great great post and so very true! A lot of men/fathers do not realize how much their kids want and need their approval and acceptance. It is life to our hearts and when we receive that love it shows that we are protected and safe. My dad has never been good at this and I have seen the results in my life and heart, but I am so grateful for my loving Daddy who cares so deeply for me. Thank you for this so very much!!!

    • July 9, 2009 9:17 pm

      and so many men seemingly give no thought to what their actions are doing to the hearts of their children, or, victims. that is the part that boils my blood. its just not ok. i see it all the time. in our community here, in our church, in my family, displayed on tv, in the media. it has to stop!

      but, like you said…we certainly do have the perfect loving Daddy to mend and heal!

  29. July 9, 2009 5:05 pm

    You have been reposted… http://www.philter48.com/ (All I did was fix the capitalization. ๐Ÿ˜‰ )

    I grew up with 7 older sisters and took couple of their boyfriends to task for how they treated my sister.

    I just do not get what goes through some men’s heads when they raise a hand to a woman, or as was said above use words to abuse. I truly start to hurt just thinking about it, and as I have said before; If he were still alive, so want to find the man who abused you and give him a piece of my… Well…you get the picture. Just makes my blood boil and is one of the times I have a hard time turning the other cheek….

    Peace and love sis.

    • July 9, 2009 9:29 pm

      ya know what? one of my abusers happened to die a very brutal death (car accident) thats all i’ll say on that.

      brother, in an odd way, it touches me that you would go to bat for me, or any other woman here. righteous anger i believe that is. ๐Ÿ˜‰

      love you…

  30. July 9, 2009 5:59 pm

    I read your story a while back. I cried for your fear because I remembered all to clearly how it felt. I have had that relationship without the suicide. I have had a loaded gun held to my head as I was holding my infant. I have in turn held the gun to that man’s chest and prayed to Jesus that he would give me the strength to NOT pull the trigger. I too have been hurt by “someone who loves me more then anything else”.

    I also have been blessed with Craig. Not once but twice. Tomorrow we celebrate 18 years. We had a 2 1/2 year break 3 years after our first marriage. But were brought together again. Our Savior gave me Craig back.

    He is the most amazing husband. He is the awesomest of fathers. I thank him regularly for showing our kids what marriage and respect are all about. He shows my son on a daily basis how to treat a woman and still be a man. He shows my daughter how a woman should be treated. He is the best example aside from Jesus for my children.

    Craig is amazing. He treats me like I walk on water and through his love I know I am safe. I love him from the pit of my soul. I, in my prayers, thank the Lord for him, for his love, for bringing me a man that can emulate in my life and my children’s life how we are to be loved by others.

    I love this post. I know I don’t comment ever but this one hit too close to home to not say thank you for speaking your mind. I don’t think it is harsh….I think it is honest.

    • July 9, 2009 9:32 pm

      i am so thrilled right now to know you have craig! i am seriously sitting here with goosebumps. thank you, Lord, for bringing them together!

      theresa – thank you for sharing. and i cant wait to meet you soon!

      • July 10, 2009 4:20 pm

        Wow. What an awesome testimony. Incredible. Praise God.

  31. July 9, 2009 6:41 pm

    Abused nearly every way, nearly every day for so many years…

    How do u know what men are supposed to be like…unless u see men who dare to be those men?

    How do u know what a father is supposed to be like…unless u see those who are?

    Thank u to the men who have “grown some” and taught me that not all men are like what I always knew…the cycle can stop…I know, ’cause I’m proof…and so are my 3 teens who are awesome young men.

    • July 9, 2009 9:34 pm

      rindy, you know how proud i am of you. you are a rock star single mom. i have thought that of you from the very beginning. you have raised amazing young men! thank you for investing and making the sacrifices youve made for your family! well done, sister. well done!

  32. Her permalink
    July 9, 2009 7:05 pm

    Tonight, I really hestitated in commenting. I am doing it anpnymously because I am a church leader(not a pastor) and I am not sure who reads Tam’s blog since I talk about her often. But I want to be open about this post. This post made me very angry. Angry in that God did not give me the man who is honored up there in the post. So angry I wept over my laptop as my “man” criticized me for not doing his laundry correctly after I just had walked in from work, in which he doesnt do. As I sat there weeping and getting angry. GOD SPOKE TO ME> not in a quiet still voice but like a loud clangy cymbal. He reminded me of verses in Galatian 1:10 ish where it says “we shouldn’t be in a popularity race with men but to be pleasing to HIM” I want to please HIM. I have a choice

    I can stand up or I can sit and weep.

    I have two young men in my family that need to see & hear that treating women with respect won’t only get them closer, but it will also get them closer to the Father above.

    Ridicule and tearing down only shows weakness and frality. God didn’t make us to be weak and frail. We need to be strong.

    In my case with my verbal abuser, I love him. I wish I could walk out on him at times, but it’s not bibilcal. It isn’t. Instead, I pray.

    I build myself up with friends and the word of God. If he can’t teach my sons, I will have too.
    I pray continously that He will sit in a church and listen to a message like this, that he would be so moved.

    Tonight, I pray and lift up ALL the women like me.
    God is able
    God is here

    Breathe and don’t lose hope.

    • July 9, 2009 7:25 pm

      Dear “Her”…

      My heart weeps with yours and am praying for you! For your strength, for your example, for your family and for “Him”.

      Love,
      Jenni

    • July 9, 2009 7:29 pm

      My prayers are with you, Her. May you find the peace that God tells us to pursue. Praying for your safety and sanity.

    • July 9, 2009 7:49 pm

      Her, i am praying for you. I pray that God gives you grace to endure and strength. I am thankful for the example you are setting.

    • July 9, 2009 9:35 pm

      one word…

      courageous.

    • July 9, 2009 9:36 pm

      Her – you don’t say if the man you love is a man of Christ and belongs to ‘your’ church?

      How can he possibly be ‘allowed’ to continue to act this way if he is a TRUE believer in God and in His Word??

      As a church leader is there no way this ‘man’ can be shown the word in scripture that so shames his behaviour as to lead to him to WANT to change or be shown as the non-believer he is in his community?

      Your perception of how to behave is admirable – but God never says it is ok to be treated as a doormat – and a wise woman will find a way (with the help of her church as needed) to build up her man into the man HE wants to be and God is calling Him Out to be.

      Help Him.

      Seek Help if the job is to big for one person to achieve on her own.

      We are to work out our own problems with His Help – but He puts those we share this life with for reasons – we can seek their aid in Him also.

      Blessings

      <B

      • July 10, 2009 4:24 pm

        I identify my dear. All I can say is that I KNOW beyond the shadow of a doubt, right here as I type this, that God hears your voice, feels your tears, and takes every harsh word spoken against you very, very personally. His own wisdom knows how or why He can have so much patience when His heart bleeds this way. But it does. Keep hearing the voice of God, sister. I believe He will show you a way out (of the cycle) as He is with me. Take courage. Don’t stop listening to the voice of God because of fear. You have more strength than you know.

  33. July 9, 2009 8:05 pm

    You have a nice site! Great information!

  34. July 9, 2009 8:09 pm

    I have to say that I am blown away by the raw honesty from the women here and the heartbreaking testimonies you’ve shared. Taking it all in just makes me want to love on my wife and daughter that much more and be the Godly man I’ve been called to be.

    And ‘Her’, I will be praying for you and the ‘man.’ Praying for God to continue to give you strength and praying that he will leave the darkness and step into light.

  35. July 9, 2009 9:42 pm

    to all who have shared here today. to all who really understood the intent and purpose of this post. to all who were courageous enough to share the hurt youve experienced… i am genuinely overwhelmed and in tears. i hurt for you. i pray for you. i love you. i truly do. i really dont know what else to say. i know not all understand whats going on here…and, thats sad. cause whats going on here is real, authentic and raw. this is real life. all of it happening right under our noses. i pray we will stand for whats right and stand up for those who cant. to be the body of Christ we were created to be. all of us. not just men. i wasnt picking on men here. that wasnt the point. but what came out is truth and reality. it is, what it is. and it needs to stop. i pray each of us will find our part in this sad reality and choose to be a conduit of change.

  36. Her permalink
    July 9, 2009 9:51 pm

    Thank yu for all your encouraging words.

    Love,

    I just want to say one thing in response to your comment.

    Verbal abuse is the most silent of all abuses.

    You can cry for help with all your might, but people don’t listen to the complaining wives, they listen to the honorable man whom shows, says, and prays with the best.

    I have sought help in many ways. TRUST ME!!

    Bibically it is a sin to divorce. I will NOT step out of the arms of God for a weak man with no balls (excuse the expression)
    My love for God trumps the love for my man, (like it should be for all of us)

    I sent my own pastor friend tonight the link asking him to send it to my man. We’ll see won’t we. Believing!!

    For now Love, I need to be on my face before my daddy God and make sure I am right before Him as a wife and mother.

    Because that is what brings honor.

    • July 9, 2009 10:23 pm

      “her” you are a very strong woman. i am encouraged by your strength and your faithfulness to God. I am blown away. For real.

    • July 10, 2009 1:52 am

      Her – i can assure you i was being trusting of your word – having not had any opportunity – as far as i know – to hear ‘his’ ‘side’ of the matter.

      i do not belong to ANY ‘named’ church for reasons you seem to be able to recognise.

      The sheer utter hypocrisy i long believed was a deep real part of Christianity as practised by so called ‘christian men and women’, and am hearing more and more of as i blog with people who do belong to some church or other (the names don’t really matter when they are lead by humans who don’t seem able to read a bible and apply it to themselves First or who are very good at ‘blocking out’ the parts that they NEED to understand the most).

      If your church does not hear your cry for aid and does not believe you have a ‘valid’ cause – and you continue to believe in Christ – there is NO reason you cannot leave that church and find a better one. One who sees and is lead through Faith and not the ‘sight’ of so-called honest and honourable ‘men’.

      I’d be happy to provide you with a ‘reference’ any time ๐Ÿ™‚

      and please, don’t believe that ‘divorce isn’t Biblical’ BS!!

      Moses ordained Divorce for His (God’s Chosen) People – it is a part of The Law of God, made perfect through Christ Jesus for those who live still with ‘hardened hearts’.

      Jesus says (Mark 10:12) a woman can ‘put away her husband’ (divorce him) but that if she does so for any cause other than ‘fornication’ AND marries another she commits adultery. Who says she has to marry another man?

      Jesus said what God (not man) has joined together let no man put asunder… i guess it is up to Him to know if it was He or man who joined you and the man you love together in ‘Holy Matrimony’ and how well your man is living up to his part of that ‘deal’ and what he is teaching his sons to do in this marriage? so who preaches that it is not biblical to divorce?

      i know your situation is not easy and that you are seeking to follow Christ in more than just words and i hope you don’t think i am making ‘light’ of you your church or your life.

      But if you KNOW you are doing right and stilll have a valid ‘complaint and no-one is listening or acting to help you then it seems to me there is something SERIOUSLY wrong with the situation and Christ is not living truly through those ‘other people’ have you any expectation you can ‘turn it around’ so they do??

      Remember even Jesus chose to turn and run sometimes (and that IS in the Bible) it doesn’t mean He ever left His Father though. ๐Ÿ˜‰

      <B

  37. July 9, 2009 11:42 pm

    I am torn after reading through all of these comments.

    I have a friend right now that is going through a seperation from her extremely controlling and verbally abusive husband. Much like “Her’s” post actually. However I saw it differently and recommended she get out of the abusive situation. I am not sure that staying with a sexually abusive or physically abusive husband would be pleasing in God’s eyes and I consider verbal abuse and control just as destructive.

    To any woman who can rise above that and find the strength to stay I am amazed by her commitment and devotion, but I also think there comes a time when it is okay to say “enough!” of the abuse at hand.

    I don’t know what the bible says about divorcing an abuser, only what is says about divorcing an adulterer. I wish it was more clear about the abuse. *sigh*

    I went through a lot of what has been talked about here early on in my marriage. My husband saw his father do it to his mother and thought it was okay, thought it was normal. The example was set for him and because his mom didn’t stand up for herself, my husband learned to be a verbally intimidating man. However, he didn’t marry his mama. ๐Ÿ˜‰ It took some time but because I stood up for myself and DEMANDED (not that women here haven’t tried this…this is just my situation) respect and to be treated better….. and helped him learn along the way….he is much better about it. I must say we BOTH have our times when we are not as honoring to each other as we should be…. but I now feel safe with him and loved by him. It was a long learning process.

    They don’t teach this stuff in school and a marriage class that lasts a few weeks before the wedding doesn’t cut it either. It takes a man being the man God intends for him to be, raising his family in the way God intends for him to, to change the face of men altogether. It can’t happen over night, but it can happen over night in our own homes….. ripple effect.

    I do believe Tom mentioned something about that on Sunday as well? Gave me chills it did! ๐Ÿ˜‰

  38. July 9, 2009 11:42 pm

    oh dear. I rambled. ๐Ÿ˜ณ

  39. Her permalink
    July 10, 2009 5:23 am

    Bran,

    Thank you for sharing your heart.

    So to put your mind at ease. I am going to share one thing more.

    I AM SAFE

    God stood beside you… liked He promised because of your honor.

    Your husband is blessed…. thank you for being an example to everyone who has commented here.

  40. July 10, 2009 4:32 pm

    Well, Tam I have commented enough to everyone else’s comments, that I might not need to actually comment here! Thank you so much for posting this. It is so, so timely in my life. I have heard sermons similar to this (I listened to the whole thing) many times in my life, and always listened with the thought, “But I can’t control that, so … what does it affect me?” This time … it was such an encouragement to me that I am not crazy. I didn’t hear “women, just submit to your husbands regardless of how they treat you.” The part about Persuasion being a form of demonstration, and the wife not fully trusting her husband to lead the family well, because she’s never seen it demonstrated … really struck home. That and where he said that a lot of women are in fear of following their husbands because of how they treat them … and he doesn’t blame them (the women). Encouraging to hear an accurate measure of a man. That my pain isn’t ‘made up,’ or ‘all in my head.’ So … thanks Tam. Love you.

    • July 10, 2009 9:55 pm

      annie – we are seriously fortunate to have the leadership at TRF that we do. i am honored to be in their company. they get it. and theyre not afraid to say it. real men, honest men, humble men…loving God, loving people.

  41. July 10, 2009 9:33 pm

    Wow. This is the kind of transparency that the body of Christ is crying out for. We need more people like you, Tam. Thank you for your ministry. My heart was literally awakened to the tangible presence of the Lord as I read through your feelings. Bless you, Sis.

    To those of you who had the courage to put yourself out there in this thread, please know that I will be going to the Lord on your behalf this evening. God bless, and keep, and infuse you with His supernatural peace this very moment.

    • July 10, 2009 9:52 pm

      if you saw me now, you would see me in tears. thank you for praying for these women, wayne. that just blesses my heart more than i can describe. bless you!

      thank you for your sweet words!

  42. July 11, 2009 12:37 am

    I’m just catching up on blogville after being a little pre-occupied this week.

    I listened to this message last Sunday (or rather, Monday my time) and agree 100%.

    Reading the post and comments…I don’t have words to add.

    I’m just going to keep being the man God created me to be, and hopefully getting better at that every day.

  43. July 11, 2009 3:49 am

    Just one more thing to think about…

    Until I was 34 yrs old, I thought that some type of physical abuse happened in EVERY family. Sure, it was of varying degrees, but I truly believed that there was not a household that someone wasn’t hit, things weren’t thrown at someone, or any other form of physical and/or sexual abuse occurred…it was just “behind closed doors”.

    I’m a college educated, professional, “typical” middle class family raised, common sense person—yet until after abuse by my ex was finally revealed and a friend made a comment that her husband had never, and would never, hit her did I begin to realize how very wrong I was. I learned that by experiencing all I did–it was all I knew.

    In that moment, I put myself in my own kids’ position…and in that moment I knew I had to show them that it was not my responsibility to only shield them from as much as possible, it was my bigger responsibility to teach them and show them what was supposed to be. It was a moment that changed everything.

    I pray for all of you who are in these situations. I always believed I “deserved” it and I really didn’t care what happened to me…but my kids were an entirely different story…if you can’t do it for you, then please do it for them. Get help. Get away. You DON’T deserve it and neither do they.

    • July 11, 2009 5:07 am

      There is a certain kind of strength, displayed in your words Rindy, that I don’t think a “man” could ever have. Praying for you and appreciating you at the same time!!

      • July 11, 2009 2:43 pm

        Thank you. My prayer is that by sharing what I’ve been through, and where I am now, it will give someone hope & encouragement that it really can happen.

  44. July 12, 2009 7:22 am

    WOW! Just, wow. (((((HUGS))))) sandi

  45. July 13, 2009 8:18 am

    There are already a lot of comments here so I can’t read through them all in the time I have but I wanted to ask a question to all the readers – men and women…

    What do the men look like in your favorite movies, songs, and tv shows?

    Are they portrayed as inept doofuses that couldn’t make it through the day without the help of at least 3 women in their lives? Or maybe they are portrayed as the playboy in a comedic fashion.

    I read a lot of blogs and some people’s favorite tv shows portray men in a light that tears down the role that they were meant to fulfill. Subconsciously or consciously our society is buying into that mentality of what manhood looks like. We celebrate it with our media and it permeates our households and churches.

    Think about it.. I bet you joke around about how men never stop for directions or look at the plans for building something. These things are meant in jest but they represent a modern view of the role of man in society – men are inept and unreliable.

    Its going to take both men and women to change that perception.

    • July 13, 2009 6:38 pm

      GRRRREAT point, tony!

      theres a whole other demon right there. not only what we portray, but what we choose to take part in. and more often than not, we dont even realize it. we’ve become so numb to it. its our “normal”.

      there needs to be a total reform.

  46. July 13, 2009 1:15 pm

    i have a lot of catching up to do….hopefully tonight, afterwork. thanks tam.

    • July 13, 2009 6:39 pm

      that will be A LOT of catching up. there are some pretty heart wrenching and touching stories in these comments. but the most important thing you can do is pray for these brave women, and men, who just want to glorify God with their lives, choices and decisions.

      and…so good to see ๐Ÿ™‚

  47. July 14, 2009 1:55 pm

    Since I came home for the summer, I’ve started to realize how deep my “daddy issues” run. It’s not the things he did; it’s the things he didn’t do. Mostly, continue to show me what a marriage is supposed to be like. When I was little, he seemed to give a good example. But as I got older, it faded. He gradually stopped spending time with us kids. He gradually stopped treating my mom as I remember him doing when I was little. More and more, he would sit in his chair and do nothing else. I vividly remember the day when my mom asked me during a “girl talk” if it seemed like she mattered to him. I will never forget her face when I couldn’t get myself to respond–I didn’t want to lie. I admire my mom more every day for putting up with what he’s become. I know I can’t deal with it. I’ve realized that I’ve started acting out verbally–and that’s not helping anything.

    Every now and then, I see glimpses of my “daddy.” Like when I accomplished something at school and the ceremony was on his birthday, with a tear in his eye, he said that it was the best gift he could get. Or when he talks about surprising my mom with a trip to Boston. He does put in an effort every now and then, but I still long for the daddy I knew when I was little.

    My point: As much as it matters what kind of example is set when we are little girls, it also matters what example is set during our adolescent years. We are going to compare every relationship to the one our parents have, and though they might have had a good relationship before, if it does not continue, the relationship we observe at the time is going to help form our approach. This also means it is never too late for fathers to change the way they lead their families.

    It may take a lifetime, but your daughter will appreciate the effort you made to show how much you love her and how much you love her mother.

    • Heidi permalink
      July 14, 2009 5:07 pm

      This is a very powerful testimony Marisa.
      Thank you!

    • July 14, 2009 7:44 pm

      you are so right. it truly is never too late. ive heard so many parents, both moms and dads, say that it is too late to (fill in the blank) now. but i wholeheartedly disagree. something is better than nothing at all. it shows the child, or adult child, they are valued and important.

      im so glad you shared your story with us. thank you!

Trackbacks

  1. change of plans… « inProgress
  2. Submission, Men, Women and the Bible - Just Living The Life – Living Life, Walking With God
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