community confessions
ran across this write up on men confessing 10 annoying things women do. thought it was very interesting. and i must admit…i am guilty of some on this list.
and here ya go – what the men have to say…
10. Pretend to be virtuous – “women should stop trying to water down their past. Women are allowed to have just as much fun as guys, and they should find a man who can appreciate that.”
9. Criticize other women – “Why is it that many women can’t make a simple compliment toward another woman?”
8. Act jealous – “…when another female enters the equation in any way, shape or form, she tenses up. If you’ve given her reason to doubt you, then her paranoia is likely justified.”
7. Become needy – “They turn men into their emotional crutch and look to us for moral, mental and emotional support.”
6. Speak in code – “They hurtle obscure, theoretical questions at us that, according to them, we’re supposed to know the answers to”
5. Invade our personal space – “Women have this instinctive tic that makes them want to groom us anytime they want and make our personal belongings theirs.”
4. Become too emotional – “It’s not that we’re insensitive, but aside from saying, “There there, sweetie,” we don’t know the first thing about comforting a woman”
3. Shop till they drop – “what’s worse is that they have to take us along for the ride”
2. Talk incessantly – “it’s just that we don’t need to hear every minute detail”
1. Use sex as a weapon – “Oftentimes most women, in an effort to show their superiority, will attack men’s universal weak spot: sex. And while I applaud them for this gutsy tactic, they really should leave the basic human needs alone, don’t you think?”
******************************************************************
what do you say men? you concur? would you add any?
women…how do you feel about this list?
inProgress 
I can agree with that list from the point of view that this seems to be the generalised view of society. Personally though I have to admit that I haven’t experienced or been the ‘victim’ of all of those… Mrs Eddy is a wonderful woman who I share an amazing relationship with.
I’d have to say that out of that list we only really experience no 6. In fact in all honesty I’d have to say that I’m more guilty of no’s 5 & 2 than my wife is… dunno what that says about me… wait, dont answer that please 😉
I’m guilty of all of these on one level or another. My biggest issues were with numbers 10 and 1 though.
#10. I tried to be the opposite, very OPEN and HONEST about EVERYTHING…. and Jake eventually cut me off and said “I don’t need to know it all, it will only upset me.” So it was left at that. 😐 Not sure what to think about that. It bothered me awhile, but 9 years later and I don’t even think twice about.
#1. Basic human needs? Suuuuure. I could go on and on and on and on and… on…about this one. Like, bring out the Tom Cruise lawyer in A Few Good Men out in me. I’ll just leave it at this though… Men, take care of OUR basic human needs, and we’ll take care of yours. 😉 And ours have very little to do with sex. 😯
“Men, take care of OUR basic human needs, and we’ll take care of yours. ”
yes….relationships are reciprocal. it has to go both ways.
“Men, take care of OUR basic human needs, and we’ll take care of yours.”
Lies. I want sex AND a pie baked at the same time. Show me a woman who can do THAT.
HAHAHAHA!!!! 😆
Now that I think more about it, I’d say that I see those behaviours at work a fair bit from the women there. I’m one of only 5 men in my office of 35 and the only bloke in my team, so I spend a lot of time listening to them.
I’d have to say that on a daily basis I hear every one of those on the list to varying degrees. Being the kind of guy I am I usually stay out of it until asked for my opinion, which happens fairly often as they seem to want a ‘male perspective’ on their situation… most of the time I end up telling them to stop doing at least one of those items on the list…
So yes, I would agree with that list and hazard to say that women know about the list but couldn’t really be bothered with not doing it… IMHO anyway 😉
oh bless your heart!
seriously…not even *I* could handle working with all those women.
God speed, friend.
😉
ShaazAAAM. I knew it. I’m practically perfect in every way.
HOLLA!!!
🙂
This is funny cause it can be true…hmmm…does that make it sad? I’m surprised, “Say nothing’s wrong when it is” isn’t on there. That’s the one I get in trouble for.
ha!
im guilty of that one this week. but some times…i just dont want to talk about it when asked.
I’m a chick and see these as annoyances.
There are some I know I do and others I know I don’t.
Gives me guidelines on how to be. Oh wait there is already instructions out there for that (the Bible).
i love this comment!
amen…
You are so right Prudence. The bible actually has a lot of positive things to say about our sex life including recommending that we have a great sex life. You will never see that taught in churhes or sunday school. I have a chpater in my soon to be finished book about sex and the bible. The bible also gives very clear directions for the husbands and wives and their proper roles. The bible actaully is a great book of practical applied pscychology.
Blessings on you and yours
John Wilder
Expecting men to be mind readers. Women mistakenly believe that if we love you we should know what you thin,k, feel and need at that particular moment.
Whenever a man says anything remotely critical about the woman, she must immediatley go on the attack and verbally brutalize the man so he gets the message that he must never ever do that again, although it is perfectly all right and her right to critique the man.
Fails to realize that man’s number one need is respect. He needs her to be his biggest cheerleader not his biggest critic.
Fails to wear lacy frilly lingerie for the guy but persists in wearing deeadly dull white nylon panties with no lace and utiltiatrian bras and heaven forbid that she actually wear a sexy nighty every night.
Just saying
Blessings on you and yours
John Wilder
are these issues in your own marriage or things you see in your practice?
These are common problems I face in my pracice with couples. You started quite a vigorous post.
Blessings on you and yours
John Wilder
its a great list from men. i thought some of it was funny, some was quite serious.
however…in all the comments…yours seem to be the most intense. you must face a lot of issues where women are heavily to blame. at least….thats what your written word here seems to imply.
and not all women are as you describe. i assure you. but i do know it only takes a few nasty ones to ruin the opinion of the whole lot 😉
I don’t mean to demean all women. But there is a siginificant percentage who do. Lack of respect is the biggest problem that women have for their men. This is exhibited in many ways, putting him down, critiquing him harshly, with holding sex, putting him down for his sexuality, refusing to wear frilly lingerie for their guy. Talking about him behind his back to relatives and girlfriends.
I realize that you meant for this to be a humorous post. I am involved with couples who are locked in dysfuctioin. The problem is that they choose to get divorced and the kids are severely damaged as a result. We have a 50% divorce rate so there are signicant numbers of women who have problems.
What women fail to realize is that men are not proactive in general in relationships, they are reactive. In other words women reap what they sew. If they are respectful to their guys, give them sex willingly and lovingly try to please him, the guy will break his back to take care of his woman. When she doesn’t he becomes distant emotionally, sort of like the turtle pulling his head back in his shell.
Bottom line is that the success or failure of a marriage is largely up to the woman in that marriage. Women file for divorce at a rate of 2-1 over men.
Feminists are their own worst enemy.
I know that I came across as heavy handed and serious, but consider my words as a cautionary tale. Believe it or not I do have a sense of humor.
Blessings on all who have commented on here.
John Wilder
My apologies that I don’t know you or your line of work… but I have to point out one unfair statement:
“Bottom line is that the success or failure of a marriage is largely up to the woman in that marriage. ”
I don’t know how one would go about qualifying this but the statement that follows it where you say “Women file for divorce at a rate of 2-1 over men” isn’t really a support that women are at fault more for failed marriages. It just says that women file for divorce more than men. ( I am assuming that those stats come from a source that has done a good job of research.)
My understanding of marriage is that it takes two. I understand that there are extreme cases where abuse or other dangerous circumstances can place fault more on one or the other spouse but I think those would fall into a minority of the reasons that people divorce. The majority of reasons would allow for equal fault in the dissolution of the marriage.
I don’t mean to be disagreeable… but at the same time, marriage is an important topic and while we can enjoy humor at the expense of those tough things that relationships create, we should be careful to not undermine the importance of either role in the institution that God ordained.
Well you are spot on that women file for divorce more often does not prove anything, it was meant as an aside remark.
I don’t mean to just pick on women. I also take on men for their failings. What I meant is that while marriage is a 50-50 deal, the success or failure of the marriage is largely up to the woman. It is just that men are hard wired differently than women. We are reactive in the marriage more than we are proactive.
I have a whole list of things that men do wrong in marriages so I don’t want you to think that I am misogynisitic.
My profession is that of a marriage and sexual coach. It is like a marriage counselor only different. Traditional marriage counselors have a horrendous failure rate of 75%. This is large part to one hour once a week. The other reason is that marriage counselors tend not to be directive, but concentrated on talking about your feelings rather than resolving problems.
Marriage coaches are proactive, take charge mediators who tell both sides where they are going wrong and give positive direciton on how to fix it iin order to resolve problems in a short term couple of weeks instead of months of marriage counseling
I hope that satisifes your concerns.
Blessings on you and yours
John Wilder
Thanks John for the follow-up. I appreciate the care you have given to your response.
I don’t know if your practice is based on biblical precepts. If not, that may be why there is confusion on the perception of your response.
Biblically speaking, God gave Eve to Adam as both a help-mate and a companion. Instruction in the New Testament tells the husband that the wife is to be loved like Christ loved the church. If we study Christ’s example we can see a very proactive approach to that love.
I agree with you completely that women and men are hard-wired differently. That is why both are equally responsible for responding to those differences. Women crave love and men crave respect (generally speaking). Both must be willing to get out of their comfort zones to show actionable love to the other spouse. To place the responsibility more on the wife is to disregard the God given command for men to take care of their families.
I believe a wise man once said that difference doesn’t mean inequality.
I apologize if I have misunderstood your approach to this topic. And I commend you on your desire to help men and women work through the tough issues that they face in their marriage.
Peace and Grace.
Hey Tony:
I could not agree with you more. I am cautious about introducing scripture in blogs because of the unsaved backlash. Both my book and my practice are based in biblical principles.
Again, I am not bashing women, I am pointing out how some women sabotage their relationships.
Let me give you an example of a couple that I coached. The woman was a professing Christian but bullied the husband by screaming, throwing temper tantrums and cursing him out saying things like f**k you and taking the Lord’s name in vain every time that she got angry which was on a frequent basis. She once broke her own finger repeatedly slamming a door harder and harder to satisfy her temper tantrum. The husband admirably did not hit her and prayed and fasted for the Holy S;pirit to heal her. He ended up crying on my shoulder in a private session. His sole sin was not making enough money so that the woman could stay home with her kids.
I could not reach her and she left coaching once I pointed out her sinful ways to her.
They got divorced and she did the same thing with subsequent husband.
So I see a lot of dysfunctional women, which perhaps none of you are on here. What I am trying to demonstrate is that it is imperative to show respect for men and a lot of women don’t. If she is not showing respect, you can’t lead her to, all you get is more disrespect and men give up in frustration.
I am not in any way trying to endanger any bodies safety and safe harbor. I am trying to help people from making common mistakes.
Had this post been about men, I would have a lot to say about what men do wrong. I am not saying that it is all women’s fault, I am trying to show how they make mistakes that do damage to their relationships.
Brent this was also directed at you. Perhaps you could see since y0u are a Christian that the job of the church and the pastor is to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable. I got out of being a minister preaching the word and instead decideed to apply scriptural principles to try and help couples from divorcing. The main reason that I do it is because kids are being victimized and there is tremendous damage done to our kids when we get divorced and y0u know what Christ said about that.
So if I step on some toes, I am sorry, but the biblee says: To them that know to do right and doeth it not, to him it is sin. I am attempting to do right on here.
Blessings on your and yours.
John Wilder
RECIPROCAL!
Tony, My apologies.
Reciprocal is for John not you. We just commented at the same time
“What I meant is that while marriage is a 50-50 deal, the success or failure of the marriage is largely up to the woman.”
then its not 50/50.
therein lies a big problem. cause if the majority of the ‘work’ lies in the womans court and she is not meeting the expectations of the man then she is to blame.
doesnt seem very balanced. or 50/50.
its important for each in the relationship to communicate openly and clearly. imo, that is the biggest weakness in marriages…a lack of communication.
and each has to be willing to work on their own stuff. we know its there. man up, woman up, and get to work on it.
AMEN!! AMEN!!!(in tears) exactly what my heart is saying today, but just cannot get it out.
what I can’t get over is the emphasis on wearing a “frilly nighty.” 😯 DANG!
😆
Brandy, men are visual creatures and are vsiually stimulated. Seeing their wives in frilly stuff is a desire in men. Too many women pooh this desire and do what they want, again not respecting the man.
Blessings on you and yours.
John Wilder
Dude, I’m not saying NOT to wear it, but you act as though women aren’t worthy if they don’t. Why don’t you try preaching “respect the woman” as well and recognize that not every night is going to be frills and lace. I didn’t get married to be on tap or display 24/7….neither did I get married to completely shut that off either. There is a healthy balance. What you teach is not a healthy balance.
Brandy
You can do anything that you want to. It is your life.
Here is a suggestion ask your husband and assure him that you won’t get mad at his answer and ask him if he would like it if you wore something frilly to bed at night regardless of whether or not you are going to make love. I suspect I know what the answer is but I could be wrong.
My question to you is why would you deprive your husband of something that he likes and desires if you love him. Does it hurt you?
Doctor Laura Schlesinger says that the number one reason for divorce is becoming self centered.
Blessings
John Wilder
Well I agree with you that becoming self centered leads to divorce…so how about not being so self centered about proclaiming that women should meet the visual needs of a man every night by wearing a sexy nightgown.
Assume all you want, my husband would rather see me in sweatpants and his old t-shirt. thankyouverymuch.
Not all men have the same thoughts on that, despite your opinion.
Then by all means wear what he likes. You are very angry, hostile and defensive over my suggestion tha women wear what their husbands like. It shows him respect and your love for him to wear what he likes. The vast majority of men like lacy and frilly. If you husband is different so be it.
Too many women have the fantasy about happily ever after without ever giving a thought about what that looks like to the guy in the relationship.
I can tell y0u that the vast majority of men if they had their way, their wives would wear lacy and frily lingerie every day. It was a positive suggestion. Why do you feel the need to put me down over it? I have not spoken to you in a hostile tone.
Blessings on you
John Wilder
John,
I think what your missing is that marriage takes 2 people. To say that women are disrespecting their husbands by not wearing frills and lace is absurd.
My husband and I have a clear understanding of what our needs are. Where he needs me physically, I need him emotionally. Its a 2 way street. He can’t expect me to meet his needs if I feel neglected and visa versa. Your comments seem to indicate that women are here to serve man, and that is our sole purpose.
I think you need to broaden your scope a bit and consider that women have needs and feelings too. I know that marriages fail, and I recognize that there are issues there, but your broad accusations and conclusions are a bit alarming.
Brandy, I’m with you girl. There is nothing I love more than perusing the “frilly” aisle for my love. But. Some days it just doesn’t happen. My husband is okay with that – I still respect him. I still meet his needs. But respecting and meeting one’s needs does not equal sleeping in a teddy every night.
THANK YOU! AMen to that! 😉
Why has no one mentioned that most of the time the “frills and lace” are just downright uncomfortable not just to wear but sleep in??? If i was married I’d hopefully be with a man that desired my comfort???
We’re women, its what we do!!! lol If we don’t do these things we become MEN! hehehehehe
I know that you are trying to be funny, but the needs that I speak about are real and too many women take to lightly to their own detriment.
Blessings on you and yours
John Wilder
john – i dont think mo was responding to you.
mo – that was funny!
10. Men may get insecure about the relationship if they know too much about a woman’s past.
9. A message to women: Stop doing that.
8. And that.
7. “Needy” bis not requiring moral, mental, or emotional support — everybody needs thatt at some point, including men (even though we act like we don’t). “Needy” is using men as a doormat or a garbage can.
6. Confession: As a writer, this has always fascinated me.
5. I come from rock ‘n’ roll, which never needs a good grooming.
4. A message to men: Listen. When a woman speaks, it is because she wants the man to listen — not to solve her problems for her or hear how “right” we are all the time.
3. I once knew a man who argued with his girlfriend for 45 minutes in the parking lot of a store because he knew tthat if he went in with her then she would shop for two hours. After 45 minutes, she shopped for 10 minutes and came out. So he saved an hour and five minutes by arguing for 45 minutes. The moral of the story: Ladies, please believe us when we say we don’t want to go shopping.
2. This is why I love shutting my hearing aids. Bah ha ha ha ha ha!!!! 😉
1. I have an immunity to this trait; it is the ultimate anti-aphrodisiac to me. The instant I sense a woman trying to do that to me, any attraction I may have had toward her vanishes instantly. And it has confounded more than one woman, I must say.
i love your #4.
2A. Shutting off**
(Stupid Blackberry! 👿 )
That list looks pretty solid to me. Especially that last one…once you make it a weapon then you’ve lost a ton of respect in my eyes. Something that’s supposed to be special between a husband and wife then becomes nothing more than a carrot on a stick.
I’d add another one… a need to make themselves center of attention when you’re focused on something else. If we (guys) are working on some project and it’s obvious we’re intently pushing to get it done then don’t walk in and start talking about your hair or call us about your lunch if you’re not inviting us to it. It’s not that we don’t care but when we’re working our jobs we have to focus and provide for you. Talk to us when our work day is over about something that’s not a true emergency.
i actually saw another article about women having to be the center of attention.
i wonder if, in some of those instances, its because the man doesnt split hos time up fairly. maybe priorities are out of whack. either way…im sure both would have things they need to work on in that case.
I am not sure about other men and the relationships that they have with their wives, but I can tell you for sure that no matter how fairly I were to split time up for my ‘hos’ that I would still be in the dog house. 😉
Sorry I couldn’t let the typo go without making some comment. Call it a character flaw.
ahahahaha!!!!
‘hos’
omaword. what a great typo. and well used in your reply 😀
I’m not saying guys may not have their priorities out of whack…many do. It’s just if your guy works 9-5, you know he works 9-5 and he’s home after that you don’t need to call him at 2 to let him know you just had your hair cut. 🙂
Well, most of the things on that list are things that women are inclined to do. However, maybe it’s just me, but I find the differences between men and women fascinating and challenging. It is something for a husband and wife to work out together. Believe me, women could write a list about men. Maybe everyone should accept his or her own weaknesses and those of their spouse and work them out TOGETHER instead of just complaining about their spouses weaknesses and pretending they don’t have any.
Maranda:
I agree that couples should work on them together. And yes, I am quite sure that women have their own list about men. This one was about women and posted by a woman.
In my practice, I teach couples to resolve conflicts peacefully by collaboritively solving problems. I teach them to ask questions like: “In what way can we resolve this”
Women make the mistake of berating a guy for his jerkiness. This attacks a man at his core. Respect is way more important to him than sex and you know how us guys value sex. When a woman continues to berate the man, it triggers the Fight or Flight response which dumps huge amounts of adrenaline in his system. He usually warns a woman who many times does not heed the warning until the man explodes and sometimes hits her.
There is not one single problem that is better resolved by talking peacefully with your spouse said with an attitude of respect. You have no more right to verbally assault your man than he does to physically assault you.
In the far east they practice the philosopy of “face”. You would not think of doing or saying anything that would cause embarrassment or humiliation or “losing face”. We in the western world are far more aggressive and need to learn the art of saving face. Too many feminsts want to “rip of a guy’s face who disagrees with her”. Feminists seem to want to adopt the worst characteristics of being a guy and demonstrate that they too can be a guy and be ferocious. Post feminists like Christina Hoff Summers says that the misandry displayed by feminists causes a backlash towards women in general and feminists in particular.
Okay I am done with my rant now. I feel better.
Blessings on you and yours
John Wilder
John,
I do know that respect is very important to men. I don’t believe that I do berate my husband and I try very hard to be encouraging and supportive of him. In fact he always says I’m the most encouraging person he knows. I’m not sure how I insinuated that I think disrespect is ok, but I am truly sorry if I did so. In fact, I’m not at all sure what inspired your “rant” as you called it. I guess women do speak in mysteries. 😉 I honestly believe everything you just said and I believed it before I wrote my comment too.
Maranda
i thought your original comment was just fine, maranda.
agreed
Maranda:
The feminist comments were not meant to be directed at you. I had to get that off of my chest. I have been verbally assaulted by a bunch of feminists recently. What prompted the rant was the comment about pretending that they don’t have a fault. That is the number one complaint about women by men, is that they don’t make it safe for the man to be honest and truthful about his feelings, especially if it is anything negative about the woman. Women tend to go on the attack when this happens.
If you don’t practice disrespect with your husband, I say kudos to you. You are a minority. Women have no problems critiquing the man as a previous poster commented that is what women do and laughing it off.
Blessings on you and yours
John Wilder
OK, Ive stayed quiet long enough…
Tammy has encouraged a place of safety and comfort here on her blog. She has encouraged truth and honesty. She has encouraged people to seek and has opened a place of healing.
John, all Im getting from you is Women suck and buy my book.
John, this post is not about you and Id appreciate it if you stopped “attempting” to counsel and have answers for everyone here. I think you need to step back, take a breath and allow people the ability to enjoy this conversation.
John, I am sure you are a great guy, but I dont believe your presence here is encouraging any type of safety or healing.
Blessings…
thank you, Brent.
And herein is why I dig Brent 🙂
thanks for cutting thru all of the psycho-babble “advice” and getting to the heart of the issue.
Some of my most urgent and persistent prayers have come from aisle 9 between the toilet paper and Styrofoam cups. “Please make the bad lady stop…” 😉
In all seriousness. Here are three things that get to me.
Extreme statements: “You NEVER ______ ” fill in the blank.
Getting Historical: We have already played that broken record and it doesn’t sound any better this go around. Why don’t we find a new song to sing?
Comparison: It doesn’t help the man to be motivated by telling him he doesn’t measure up to so-and-so in any given area.
i agree with all 3. for sure!
Good ones Tony.
6. – I KNEW it … u women DO speak in mysteries…. maybe I should ask the Lord to be the revealer of the dark sayings…..
5. My wife does this all the time.. picking at my skin…. I keep telling her that we’re not monkeys, and that she’d be cursed by every dermatologist on the planet!
2. Talk. Talk. Talk. Talk some more… Can I get a MUTE button installed as an upgrade on my wife’s chassis?
im gonna call you ‘monkey boy’ now.
😉
Don’t u dare! ROFL 😆
women….your post is coming soon.
😉
Brent:
You took the words right out of my mouth.
Thank you!
“…women suck and buy my book!”
Sorry. Still laughing…absolute classic there! Couldn’t have said it better myself…but, man, my stomach hurts from laughing and I got tears in my eyes…!!!
Oh, geez! Man, I needed a good laugh.
(On the bright side: 5% of anyone who ever starts a book actually finish it. And only 5% of that 5% actually get published. So who knows, maybe nobody will ever have the chance to buy it.)
🙂
I am really trying to help here noreaster, why would you make mocking comments dripping with condescension? I have given people tips on avoiding making common mistakes based upon my work. I see the devastation every day. The disrespect is not desrved or appreciated. I did not suggest that anybody buy my book I was refrring to the Sex and The Bible chapter because the church does a lousy job at teaching the positves in the Bible about sex. All you get in church is a bunch of thou shalt nots.
Blessings
John Wilder
“I am really trying to help here noreaster, why would you make mocking comments dripping with condescension?”
I wanted to type here: “because you’re a doofus,” but I decided I’d be nice and just say… well, no… nevermind.
John – just some observations… as you are a counselor and we counselors are always in the business of wanting to learn how to do what we do better, yes? if not… disregard the following 🙂
1 – Perhaps your tone comes across a bit belittling. your one-liners of “its the woman’s fault” come across as highly critical. For the folks who come here to try and be “in community” and “do life” as “imperfect folks”, it hurts truthfully, and its a gross over-generalization from the cases you have dealt with. You have a random sampling of couples – not the whole pie.
2 – at times you come across a bit more sexist perhaps than you are intending? Now, you being a brother in Christ, do I think that is your intention? NO. You being a counselor, do I think that is your intention? NO. Absolutely not. I know your charge is to help, not hurt. However, to say to a woman, “honey you need to put something frilly on” – while it may be a valid and wholesome comment – is UNBELIEVABLY demeaning. Wow. Perhaps a better way to say it might be this, “Men are visually stimulated. Keeping that in mind, as a way to show love/respect to your husband, what does he like that you wear? What do you wear that makes you feel pretty? could wearing that special T-shirt or skirt or nightgown or pair of cute sweatpants be something that you could do for him to encourage him?” Say something that VALIDATES the woman’s personhood instead of demeans it… because your frilly comment sounds like this, “You as a woman are not AS important as the frills you wear.” and I don’t think that is your intention, right?
3 – not sure how to say this without sounding confrontational so bear with me as I find the words… in my experience, I have seen a LOT of counselors who go into counseling to fix their own “stuff.” Your initial post sounded extremely vitriolic (whether you meant it to or not). If you have internal “stuff” that God is working on (which we ALL do – I do, you do, I definitely do, we all do)… let God work on it PRIOR to attempting to help others. If you don’t have awareness of your own “stuff”, you WILL poison the helping event. I am not saying you have “stuff” to work on, just asking you to search your heart – if there is past baggage, the greatest gift you can give to your clients is taking responsibility for some of what is motivating you to be soooooooo impassioned about sharing that CERTAIN things are the RIGHT way and other things are the WRONG way.
In counseling… things are rarely “one way”… yet, your posts are very emphatic that they MUST be a certain way. THAT alone would concern me if I was your client…
So… again, just my observations… take them or leave them…from one broken traveler to another 🙂
Re#5….What personal space???? You lost that at “I do”
A little advice but only if you want it…
Smile. A lot. At each other. In the eyes. You’ll strengthen that “universal weak spot”. Promise.
p.s…don’t get me started on aforementioned “rants”.
“What personal space? You lost that at ‘I do'”
Girl. YES. love this.
(and i also love the advice – i adore my husband’s smile…even more so when he’s smiling at ME)
Hey Tam:
I have a suggestion. How about you women doing a 10 list on things that guys do wrong and I will concentrate on guys problems. It is only fair that guys take their fair share. I truly believe in equality.
Blessings on you and yours
Jonn Wilder
Here’s one wife’s perspective on that….
I wouldn’t want you telling my husband all that he does wrong if it’s anywhere near the same tone with which you are telling women what they do wrong sexually, or otherwise.
I checked out your blog (against wise advice and my own better judgement) and here are my thoughts on that…. which I can only guess is the same “knowledge” that is fueling your comments here…..
As a woman, if I sat across from someone who was supposed to help me, and he was telling me that stuff…I’d be feeling pretty badly about myself and always question whether my husband loved ME, or the lace I was wearing, or the sexual acrobats I was probably failing at. Good grief.
And how about no respect whatsoever for the act of sex in a marriage only? and addressing it in a more reverant manner than using nasty slang that really should be discussed between a husband and wife, and not on a BLOG for crying out loud. :-\
So no, I wouldn’t want my husband to have to hear detrimental advice that would most likely make him feel less than.
I understand that you probably truly think this is helpful, but there is definately a better way to go about helping people than what has been shown here today.
In other words I should not tell anybody that they are doing anything wrong. That is the difference between coaching and counseling. Counseling never tells you that you are doing anything wrong, they just talk about feelings. Traditional marriage counselors have a 75% failure rate. Coaches have a 75% success rate because they are proactive, tell both sides where they are screwing up and how to do it better to improve the relationship.
It is more direct and sometimes harder to hear but it works vastly better than traditional counseling.
Best Wishes
John Wilder
I have the mental image of Susan Powter screaming “STOP THE INSANITY!” 😆
it really seems like, here and on your blog, that you see women as ‘objects’. im a bit put off by this, john.
women wearing lace all the time, every night, having sex on their periods (cuz that falls under the every night rule)….i think i read where you even suggested that when a woman does not have sex it is likened to an affair – cuz she is not holding up her part of the wedding vows?
i believe i am a very gracious wife. i am loving, supportive and giving 😉 , in our marriage. i have a very healthy perspective on all this, even with a great deal of sexual abuse as a child. but when i perused your blog earlier i was deeply put off by it.
with all due respect…i could never imagine referring a woman to you for coaching. we have enough self esteem issues already. so to sit there and be told we have to be “on” all the time. mmmnope. i failed to see a place where you addressed the men and possible reasons why their women arent doing them every 8.3 seconds. it mostly seems to be a fault of the female.
very interesting views you have there, john.
Well you did not get very far in my blog. I repeatedly take on men for their chauvinism and lack of respect for women and their self centerdness in bed.
I take on guys for not loving their wives for as Christ loved the church. I had earlier suggested that you change the subject to what men do wrong and I would gladly change gears. I feel like I am now being constantly attacked. I have been gracious in the face of insults.
Another woman on here posted 1 Cor 7 which says that women don’t have the right to say no to sex with their husband NOR DOES THE HUSBAND HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY NO TO HIS WIFE. Proverbs 5 says “let her be as a loving hind and a pleasant roe, let her breasts satisfy thee at ALL TIMES and be ravished always in her love. In the old testament God allowed for multiple wives nad concubines, (an alternative wife bordering just above a slave.) concubines fulfilled the man’s sexual desire when the primary wife turned him down. This was all turned around in Proverbs 31 where the wife was now required to satisfy all of the man’s sexual desires and he had to have only one wife. This is what the bible says I am just sharing the message. Of the several thousand p;eople who have read my posts about sex, not one person has complained on the blog or on the article site. I take that back, one woman complained that I was sick because I said that anal sex can be enjoyable. She said that the bible forbids it, I explained that it only forbids it to homosexual men, no where in the bible does it forbid it for married couples.
You must remember I am also a sexual coach and I help deal with their sexual problems as well as relational problems.
I am so sorry for your sexual abuse. I have worked with many sexual abuse victims, was one myself.
Blessings on you and yours
John Wilder
It is easier to tell people what you believe they are doing wrong than it is to dig down and get them to examine themselves and “talk about their feelings” maybe that’s the reason for the disparity of “success.” Just saying.
G
John, do you get paid to counsel people? You do realise there is an implication on the counselor & the counselee then. The counselor has to provide the service paid for, while the counsellee enters into a contract with the knowledge that if they pay their fees, they’ll get the counselors help.
I acknowledge that you feel that you are freely offering advice here, but you also have to acknowledge that you need to respect the counselees too. No-one here entered into a paid contract of service with you, so surely it follows that if people disagree with you enough, and tell you that it appears that you just want to plug your book – then SURELY you MUST respect that?
A good counselor acknowledges that not everyone wants their ‘help’. You cannot force the issue, you cannot change people’s minds, they must do that for themselves. I’m sure if you were having a face to face discussion with the majority of posters here, or even better, see their daily interaction with their loved ones, you’d have a far better idea of how well they behave with their partner. Of course, we all have room for improvement, but surely you can understand that as a counselor, that not even you have all the right answers. Our witness is only lived out in a small part by our words on the printed page. You seem to be unwilling to accept what people are saying to you about their lives, ergo, people are going to be less willing to accept your words.
We can give you nothing else but our words. You don’t know us. I’m just asking that you give people here the respect that you are so keen on, regardless of their gender. You are also not my husband or my pastor, the blog owner, the blog owner’s husband or pastor. so I’m also asking you to kindly let things alone, as you are actually speaking from a position of no authority here.
Thank you.
Oh but Diane, he’s a COACH, not a counselor. Different rules. 🙄
John,
How about you concentrate on NOT speaking for anyone else besides yourself? That’s a good start.
Your research is flawed. What you claim to know is NOT complete because I am not feeling love, respect or Biblical perspective in any of your comments.
For every claim you state, I know of 3 opposite stories. We’re all flawed… That’s what makes redemption so great.
I, for one, will NOT be buying your book and will encourage all others to follow.
Great marketing strategy, man!
I will start. Why do guys think that housework is the woman’s job when she works 40 hours a week and the guy works 40 hours a week.
Why do guys get so predictable and self centered when it comes to sex?
Women it is your turn.
Blessings on you and yours
John Wilder
i was already planning on doing a post from the womans perspective. it will be up later….
John:
“Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband. The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that satan tempt you not for your incontinency.”
1Corinthians 7:3-5
“”Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God. Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, that he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: for we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself.”
Ephesians 5:20-21; 25-33a
“In other words I should not tell anybody that they are doing anything wrong.” Has anyone asked you to…. and ummm what Brent said….
Tam: This one is hard for me to get right perspective about at this time, but I thank you very much for putting this out there…. I’m loving reading what most people are contributing… 🙂
As someone who is single, my thoughts may be invalid, but as a child of an extremely functional and HAPPY marriage (going on 30 years), I believe I may have something to say!
1) I’ve NEVER been a frilly person. I don’t think I’ll EVER be a frilly person.
2) A man should NEVER expect of a woman what he wouldn’t expect of himself. (and visa-versa)
3) It takes a LOT more than frills to make a marriage work.
4) Marriage is about MUTUAL servanthood & gratification.
I have more thoughts, but I’m at work, and I have work to do!
Hey Paula:
Kudos on your husband loving you anyway. Marriages are always about compromise. I am just suggesting that women ask their husbands what they would like and consider giving it to him becuase you love him, again what an ass am I.
Blessings on you and yours
John Wilder
John, please READ the comments before replying.
Also, I had a look at your blog, and ran across this “charming” quote:
“every woman has a secret rape fantasy”.
Please provide references for such an extroardinary statement.
I would also like to know what professional affiliations you have, as none are supplied on your blog.
It says every woman has a secret rape fantasy? Really? Unbelievable.
yah. pretty unbelievable if you ask me.
I don’t even know what to say to that. After a childhood filled with abuse I can say with confidence that’s not something I want to entertain in my thought life. And I’m also certain I’m not in the minority.
I don’t even know where to begin in response to something like that. I’m so glad I didn’t click through to his site as I *might* have used some bad language in response. Ha.
It also talks about how I am denying my husband the pleasure of seeing my panty lines by wearing thongs. Yes, thats right, you heard me, thongs are wrong.
Yeah.
Every woman fantasizes about being raped just like every man fantasizes about being castrated
LOL!!!! Oh my goodness, you mean guys don’t fantasize about having their junk cut off?!?! Who knew?
Thank you Jenni!!
G
great point!!
John,
I just got done reading all your comments and even got sick reading your blog. I’m came to a conclusion.
1. You have no clue
2. You need a long wild ya know
3. Your profession should be taken away from you.
4. I wouldn’t allow you to stand in the room, neighborhood, or store with anyone I love.
You are a monster!
I was raped. I did not like it, I don’t dream about it, and the hell to you that you’d think I would have fantasies about it.
You’re a monster!
and if I wear granny panties to bed?
It’s none of your fricken business!!
pwn3d. (that’s computer geek-speak for owned, which essentially means, Heidi just kicked this dude in the junk)
Heidi, we love you!
The minute I finished reading some of these comments I sensed sexual addiction and predator. I still believe that and I am grateful that you called that out!
Amen to that!
I love you, Heidi. This very confused man has no clue. You remember the TRUTH that is Christ.
You are loved.
You are cherished.
Heidi – you’re awesome.
I’m so sorry that this evolutionary throwback (and I don’t even believe in evolution!) has tried to hurt you or upset you.
The people who care, know. Brush the dust from this fool off your feet, and move on as brilliantly as you already are.
I second what machroi and Jenni said, Heidi!
G
me too. ya know whats been good about all this tho…everyone has freely expressed themselves. i love that.
Thank you all, Brent and Tam knew after they read my comment how much it took to for me to scribble a few words.
BUT I will no longer allow a “fool” to turn my “REDEMPTION” story into a mockery…
My great God is my coach!
I love you, Heidi!
dannnnng Heidi – you GO girl! 🙂
just re-reading this again today.
still love this!
love you heidi!
Oh and “kudos on your husband loving you anyway”.
Are you serious?
The guy who is going to be my husband will love me because I am his help-meet and love me for ME, NOT because I choose to wear frills or not.
You reduce woman to much less than they are if you seriously believe frills can fix things.
Paula, I assure you, you will find a husband that loves you without the frills. Your perspective is dead on, and you don’t need to defend it to this guy.
What a charmer this guy is. I’m amazed at how well he has me, the woman, all figured out (insert sarcasm here).
Thanks Katie 🙂
Paula,
Thank God you work with REAL counsellors all day, not this tinpot one.
I know! Thank God for qualified, Christ-following counsellors.
When you know the real thing, the counterfeit is really quite obvious (and horrifying).
“Kudos on your husband loving you anyway”
ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME?! 😯
John,
Good gosh, my man, I read through most of your controlled rants here and was so put off.
Truth be told, I love the frilly things, frequency, etc, but what is coming across to me today is manipulative and mean. At the least it is based on expectations and not relationship.
I read, edit and review a lot of books. If this is a preview of what yours is I would never pick it up or recommend it. I have to do far too much loving on people who are in recovery from counseling like you’ve described.
Now that I’ve got that off my chest I’m going to go finish dinner for my wife.
What is manipulative and mean about women respecting their men and doing things that please them. I have said that women can do anything that they want to do. I am trying to over come a society that is dripping in misandry. I have suggested to a woman to talk to her husband and ask him what he would like. Wow what an asshole am I.
If more women asked their husbands would like and provide it, I would be out of business.
As to coaching and counseling, I can honestly say that I have never had a complaint from any couple or inidividual that I work with and I am one of but a handful of guys who offer a money back gaurantee. Never had to give the money back yet.
Blessings on you and yours. By the way, I am also doing ressearch as to how to best phrase the advice in the book based upon answers that I get here and from other bloogs. I don’t change the advice, just rephrase it.
Blessings on you and yours
John Wilder
Thank you Chad- I typically find myself picking up the pieces after a “counselor” has counseled clients into a breakdown from bad “counsel” or “coaching”…
John – see my post above… I think it is the WAY that you say things. It’s hurtful, dangerous, and kind of mean.
John:
Really trying not to choke on my dinner, but do you really not get it? I am sure that you are good in your field, but here I don’t see one person who has solicited your advice under any of the comments on this thread. Can you show me where they have?
Tam is respected here because she is a respecter…. not because she has some kind of credentials that try and demand respect where there has been none built up. You are bulldozing where you have not been invited, and your interpretation of scripture has definitely left me scratching my head. Again, where on any of the threads, have you been asked to share your opinion? I realize you feel you are helping but if you are feeling attacked you may want to look at why….
Apparently, he does not, Debs! And what are you doing eating & reading at the same time!? Probably because you had to feed the fam first, get Johnny to soccer, do 3 loads of laundry, run the vacuum, clean 1 bathroom, pick Susie up from piano, and make sure you have something frilly on before you feed everyone. (Just kidding, of course).
Tam, how in THE world did you attract this guy????? I mean really? It has been a reaaallly loooong time since I have seen such a cave man attitude toward women. And he just can’t take a hint & go back in the cave. Way back. Where no one can hear his ranting.
Is there anyone he didn’t berate or argue with? Wait! Don’t think he really challenged Brent, now, did he? Or Tony. Too much. I love these level headed guys that stop by here. Not the one teetering out on a limb.
Besides, I always go on the notion that relationships are NOT 50-50, but100-100. If you aren’t giving it your all, then I think there could be problems down the line. And not just marriage, but my relationship with Christ, with my online community, with my best friend. And above all RESPECT. I do not need any more self-esteem issues! Nor does any man or woman.
Shelly: You crack me up girl… 🙂 I think it was about the plug for anal sex that made me want to spew my shrimp… but we won’t go down THAT road….
Let me make one correction tho… Tam did NOT attract this guy, it was simply an exercise in my self-control technique….. OYE’ nice to meet you!
I am now convinced that women are the root of all evil and the only hope for man is to turn them all into mindless sex slaves or to become gay. Because I appreciate and respect women too much, I am choosing to become gay. AND, I get choice of the frilly lacy things first!!!
“Wow what an asshole am I” -marriagecoach1
He said it…I didnt…
Not so sure I want to meet you someday. Tam, for sure!
😆 The first step is admitting….
Brent –
Choosing to become gay? YES!! WE CAN FINALLY MAKE IT OFFICIAL!!
Brent, forgive me for asking but I’m married. What is this “sex” of which you speak?
Brent, “He said it…I didn’t…”
LOL!!!!! Awesome!! Thank you!
G
john,
sorry about your penis.
Can you say penis on the comment section???
🙂
Anyone else all of a sudden hungry for a hot dog?
no.
meatballs?
mmmmmm
PENIS!!!
CASTRATION!!!
this entire section….. made me laugh SO HARD my children came running to see what was so funny. 😯 OH MY WORD!!! 😆
After all these comments, I would start to realize the people weren’t interested in my opinion and just move on and count it as their loss…if I wasn’t trolling. 🙂
I’m single so I don’t know how much weight my words have in this discussion but wow John you’re just plain crazy. I’m sorry but you have taken us back about a million years to the stone ages with your comments and your philosophy. I’m actually speechless and that’s saying something for me.
Tam thank you for your post; there is definitely some truth to some of the items on the list. I just feel bad that the conversation went the direction it went in the comments. Thanks for your thoughts though.
Agreed!
G
makeda – i thought the list was actually pretty good too. i identified with some. thought it would be fun to share each of our thoughts on the other sex. had no idea it would become a free “coaching” session tho.
anyway…glad you chimed in 😉
Truth and Grace…. all. He needs both Truth and Grace.
Night and blessings.
tony, you are right. i think what has happened here is a group of right minded people standing up for something that is blatantly backwards. each of us have our own unique approach.
honestly…john confuses me, deeply. but the thing that burdens my heart the most…are women who are subjected to his coaching. i dont see any good, healthy good, that could come out of anything he has displayed here today, or from any of the material i read on his blog.
furthermore…i am equally concerned with the men who buy into his line of thinking that in turn paints the woman as merely an object. a means to an end.
its all very sad.
I took oot the pictures because you women apparently are offended at lingerie. Be sure to verbally assualt the assosciate editor on here, her name is Faye Brennan. She compiled this report on sexy lingerie for all phases of your life, Tell Faye how sick and twisted she is and how sexist and a stalker and a sex addict. Your hate speech does not become you. Or is it okay for women but not for men to suggest wearing something for your man that he likes. Remember, I endured all of the taunts and insults and maintained an attitude of politeness.
I am out of here.
Every Stage of Your Love Life
Whether you’re single, dating, post-breakup, pregnant or in a relationship, we’ve got hot lingerie picks for you.
-Faye Brennan, brought to you by PinpointsX.com
It’s something that isn’t really talked about, but we know it’s true. There’s lingerie for every aspect of your life and phase of your relationships. After all, the lingerie you wear at the start of a love affair isn’t necessarily going to be what you wear when you’ve been together for five years and have a baby. And who hasn’t devoted a section of their underwear drawer to first-time-with-a-new-guy bra and panty sets?
Read How to Look Sexier in Bed
We consulted with Jennifer Carroll, co-author of the new book, Underneath It All: A Girl’s Guide to Buying, Wearing, and Loving Lingerie ($11.16, Harlequin), to come up with a guide to lingerie that matches your relationship status. Whether you’re single, seriously involved or happily married, here are your options:
Single and Not Seeing Anyone Right Now
So what if no one else will see your underwear? “Dress for the love life you want, not the one you’ve got,” advises Carroll. Here are some simple pieces that you can wear on a solo night at home to make you feel more sensual and in touch with your feminine side without feeling ridiculous. Looks like this will give you an extra boost of confidence, “just in case you meet Mr. Right,” says Carroll.
From left: Jenna Leigh Maroma Deep Red Nightie ($125, jennaleighlingerie.com). Alfani Chemise, Bralette ($24.98, macys.com). Kimchi Blue Polka Dot Slip ($48, urbanoutfitters.com)
Single and Dating
When you’re dating but not fully committed to someone, it’s a good idea to keep the more complicated items safe in your naughty drawer until things start getting serious. For the time being, stick with classy yet sexy separates. “Make sure your bra and panties match,” says Carroll. “Your date will appreciate the effort!” And in these styles, he’ll want to stick around to see what else you’ve got in your repertoire.
From left: Pin Dot Mesh Ruffled Bra ($7, charlotterusse.com) and Polkadot Boyshort Panties ($3, charlotterusse.com). Felina: Harlow Full Busted Demi Bra ($32, barenecessities.com) and Felina: Harlow Low Rise G-String ($14, barenecessities.com). Flirty Lace Balconette Bra in pink ($16.80, express.com) and Flirty Lace String Thong in pink ($12.50, express.com)
In a Relationship
Now that you’ve found someone, it’s time to up the ante. If you’re in a relatively new relationship, don’t bother with complicated closures and ties because your guy won’t wait long enough to delicately take these pieces off of you. Instead, stick with pieces that are hotter than your average bra and panty set, but are just as easy to remove. Carroll likes the simple addition of a garter belt and stockings, too. “Add them to any bra and panty set to heat things up on date night,” she says.
From left: Brazilian Lace & Mesh Flyaway Babydoll ($32, fredericks.com). Leopard Babydoll Set ($21.95, yandy.com). Cut-O
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?
Sexy Lingerie for Every Stage of Your Love Life
Page 2
Engaged
He proposed! Or you proposed! Either way, now’s the time to show your fiancé what he’s committed to for the rest of his life – and that’s you in all your sexy glory. Carroll says, “Engage him with the promise of things to come in bustiers, corsets and thigh-highs.” He will instantly know he’s made the right choice when he sees you in one of these scandalous little numbers.
From left: Love Red Love Basque ($370, agentprovocateur.com). Reversible Satin Corset with Dot Net Ruffle ($49.90, lingeriediva.com). Lace Garter Set ($42.99, yumdrop.com)
Read 10 Ways to Unleash Your Inner Bad Girl
Married or Living Together
Sure, the honeymoon may be over, but that doesn’t mean you should retire your collection of negligees. The bedroom only gets boring if you let it, says Carroll. “Ditch the fun run T-shirt for sleeping and go for a silky chemise or gown. Also, invest in some lacy, racy bras and a fantasy outfit — like a naughty maid — for dress-up!”
From left: Farr West Lace Trim Full Slip ($80, nordstrom.com). Tickle Me Maid ($39.95, 3wishes.com). Elle Macpherson Intimates Dentelle contour bra ($51, figleaves.com)
Pregnant
When you’re expecting, there are going to be times when the last thing you feel is sexy. But you’d be surprised how cute little outfits like these can instantly lift your mood and make you feel like your pre-preggers self again. Plus, daddy-to-be will be happy to see that you’re embracing motherhood and the flattering glow that comes with it. “Look for babydolls that have support for your ample bust and room for your growing tummy” in order to look your best, suggests Carroll.
From left: Eve Alexander Maternity Lace Bralette and Boyshort Set ($26.99, target.com). Giselle Babydoll ($23.80, passionspice.com). KeKoqueta Edge Lace Maternity Camidoll Set ($69.95, stellamaternity.com)
Post-breakup
Your relationship may not have lasted, but your sex appeal shouldn’t die along with it. As Carroll says, “Out with the old, in with the new! New lingerie, that is.” Be the sex kitten that you were destined to be and experiment with lingerie you never thought you’d wear in a million years. “Wear sexy boudoir pieces that inspire hot dates; embroidered lace bra and panty sets, sheer mesh chemises, or risqué teddies,” says Carroll. Life is short, so live it up!
From left: Sheer Dress with Attached Garters and Stockings ($14.89, glamorose.com). Romantic Lace Bra and Garter Set ($24.95, bodybyvenus.com). Chantilly Black Lace Deep V Halter Teddy ($27.95, flirtcatalog.com)
Faye Brennan is assistant editor at BettyConfidential.
2 Votes
This entry was posted on Monday, April 12th, 2010 at 10:22 pm and is filed under sexual relationships. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site. Edit this entry.
I don’t know how to respond to this but really confused why John is now promoting the romantic lace bra and garter set for 24.95?
in case y’all were wondering what PinpointsX is:
PinpointsX™ points you to passion.
It pinpoints your locality in advance and places you within the local action.
PinpointsX™ is a patent pending cellular (mobile) application and a correlative adult-social-networking website, enabling you to ‘locate & interact’ with erotic partners and facilitators in your immediate, changing and real-time location. It provides you with direct access to all imaginable erotic resources near you, and thus with a complete integrative, personalized and interactive “Passion Map” of your current location.
With your personal interactive “Passion Map”, you may filter, prioritize, schedule and directly interact with those sensual resources, leading towards your ultimate fantasy: Singles, Couples, Entertainers, Peepshows, Special Clubs, suitable Motels and Hotels etc.
Thanks John, Kudos! 😉
Yeah, that site sounds REALLY based on Biblical Principled of Marriage. Thanks John, I’m sure my husband would be thrilled if I followed that lead! How could I be so mislead! When you said every man needs respect, you really mean ‘every man needs PORN!’
Brilliant!
“Remember, I endured all of the taunts and insults and maintained an attitude of politeness.”
Since when has being condescending and demeaning been considered an attitude of politeness?
John, a bit of insight for you. MARRIAGE ISN’T ALL ABOUT SEX. Weren’t you listening in High School?
And I offer you that bit of advice for free. I don’t even have a book to plug OR scanties to sell! I’m quite shocked you haven’t waxed lyrical about the edible kind, to be honest. I would have thought they would have been right up your darkened alley filled with threatening men.
john…a couple things here…
1. we women here are not offended by lingerie. we’re just practical. and our men would rather see us naked. and, its better for the budget.
2. your about page says you attended two different colleges. do you have degrees from those?
3. are you a licensed coach?
4. where do you practice?
5. why is there no plug for your practice on your blog? no name for it? no contact info?
6. and why on earth did you leave all that info about lingerie??? why? for what purpose? did we ask? do you think youre helping?
im not trying to be argumentative here, i assure you. i am truly, truly curious.
Of course I had to read the last few comments after being all serious ‘n’ all. Maybe I should take to my darkened boudoir with a damp cloth for my fevered brow (the overexertion of thinking as a woman), but not until I make a 3 course meal for my hardworking husband. Despite the fact all he’ll want is some raw carrots. But, he’ll damn well eat it and like it. After all, it’s my way of showing him respect.
I’ll withdraw to do the dishes by hand (all the time protecting myself in that flirty little apron and rubber glove combo that he loves SO much) and leave my man to watch some UFC on his MASSIVE tv (oh you know, men like their BIG toys…giggle). Then I’ll retire to my boudoir again (separate bedrooms of course – you need to maintain that feminine mystique) while using a trained piranha to exfoliate and remove all my body hair. Because what man doesn’t want his special lady to look like a pre-pubescent child?
After enveloping myself in Eau de BBQ (my husband’s favourite scent), while daydreaming of being snatched from a dark urine-stained alley and forcefully taken (every woman’s DREAM!), I’ll enrobe myself in head to toe scratchy leather and lace. So stylish, so sexy, so damn uncomfortable – but hey, what’s a little mental scarring and chafing if it means my beloved will be happy?
Then I will waft out of my temple of marital pleasures, offering myself up to my dream lover like an antipasto platter (his favourite). He will turn to me with that look in his eyes, a smile dancing across his ruggedly handsome face, his mouth opening to speak, and he’ll say…..
…”BWHAHAHA!!! What the heck are you doing? Aren’t you cold & uncomfortable? Here, sit down and I’ll get you a cup of tea & a snuggly jumper!”
Sigh, sometimes reality is SUCH a disappointment….
hahahahahaha!!! I’m so seeing you say this 🙂
I think men should have to wear lace for a day and see how much THEY like it.
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!! 😀
G
Perfectly said, Diane!!!! I’m sure David can hardly control his urge to vomit!
Even while leaving, he takes the chance to “blame” the woman. Sheesh.
Yeah, ‘you women’. We have names, John.
And what kind of relationship do you actually think women have with each other in that we’d actually tell each other what underwear to wear? Seriously? You live in a bubble, chum.
I came back here expecting a fun happy comment section … with a lot of laughs….
What I got was….. indescribable.
I am not going to beat a dead horse – the others have commented quite liberally and quite accurately about what has been labeled as ‘advice’….
My only thought is that – even if his blog is specifically targeted at sex coaching or whatever… I only see one Scripture verse, and many, many slang words …. The same thing could have been more professionally written, if he is coming over as a professional trying to help.
May I just say – I love my sisters here – and I am sorry you had to endure that.
(((HUGS)))
I too have made the stupid mistake of looking at that eejit’s website. Oh my Lord, I think I’m going to vomit.
Disgusting, depressing, manipulation of scripture (how on EARTH telling your husband to f*** you is an application of 2 Corinthians 9:6 is beyond me). If I spoke like that to my gorgeous husband, he’d think there was something desperately wrong, and would be much more turned off than on. And I know he’d volunteer that info freely for himself.
It’s disgraceful that there’s manipulators and abusive people out there like this guy. To be honest, I read his stuff and think ‘you’re actually getting off on this, aren’t you?’ I seriously think he’s getting some perverted pleasure out of what he writes.
I wish there was someone we could report him to, but as he’s not exactly forthcoming about his qualifications & practice, I guess we’ll have to put him down as a complete sicko. And I don’t say that easily, either.
Wow. This entire comment section saddens me. Greatly. 😦
My instant gut check reaction is … why would someone take marriage advice from an older balding white guy who is not in the least bit attractive? Maybe that’s why his significant other never wore lacy lingerie. Just sayin’ … I get the same feeling when I see a website of a church that has all older white balding male for pastoral staff. Now, don’t get me wrong. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT…but maybe that’s one of the reasons why most 20-somethings are more spiritual than religious. Give us something we can relate to so we can show you the kind of respect we think you deserve. I dunno, I’m rambling and this post is already long enough, but seriously. This is amazing stuff. Tammy I heart you back.
It breaks my heart to think that couples have sought “coaching” from John and others like him. That when their marriages were on the brink, they blindly stepped into the office of someone who would only ever tell them what they were doing wrong and never highlighting what they were doing right; who was to blame…and that that person was almost exclusively the woman. They ended up in the office of someone who implied that a woman essentially brings a man to abuse her. Yet again, the woman is to blame. (And that’s just the beginning of all the things I’m flabbergasted by.)
These couples stepped into an office seeking a Godly perspective to counseling to help save their marriages. Instead, they got…that. I can’t help but think this has something to do with the divorce rate being so high.
It further breaks my heart to think that this is the view that some people are left with of counseling. I know that if I were to end up in the office of someone like that, I would never want to go back.
And John, this is such a minute detail, but many comments ago you asked if it would hurt to sleep in frilly lingerie every night. For some of us, yes, it really would. That stuff is not comfortable. There are many women out there who can’t even wear a bra all day without experiencing a great deal of pain. So to wear a teddy every night would hurt, yes. And I would hope my husband would want my relief more than seeing that every single night.
Thank God that when we come to Christ, He doesn’t point at us and say ‘it’s your fault! YOU did this to me! I blame you!’ when we turn to Him in repentance. He gave up His life to save us. Freely. No blame. He casts our sins into the sea of forgetfulness & remembers them no more.
No condemnation. No guilt.
I realise I struggle to show the same grace and mercy, so I am sorry. I’m so thankful to be among people who for the most part allow me to be free to speak – you’ve no idea how hard that’s felt in the past – but who also sharpen me to NOT be merciless. I agree with CS Lewis: ‘Eros will have naked bodies; Friendship naked personalities.’ Fitting for the topic, perhaps.
I know this has already been beat to death, but I seriously just finished reading everything. And WOW. How did you miss this: I have been verbally assaulted by a bunch of feminists recently? How rude. He’s so insulting and yes you’re right I sensed mean and predator as well. Good God. Somebody help this man. And block him from your blog while you’re at it.
wow. he makes me think of some not so nice words. Good thing I am above his maturity at such a young age.
What he was saying was absurd. really sad. This world is full of sad and hurting people!
LOVE YOU BLOG FAMILY!
Thank you all for standing up!
and thank you tam for this wonderful open community! I love it!
Of all days I pick to skip, I picked the wrong one :D. I actually read and started to formulate a comment in my head….then Eli started sreaming….
BUT….
Seeing as I, according to many, play the role of a woman, I thought I’d point out that I’m not offended by any of this :P.
Also, maybe not a popular statement, but there’s not a whole lot of Jesus shining thru in the piling on of John…regardless of what he typed. He’s obviously not a 25 year old just starting a practice. We aren’t changing his mind….especially with hurtful sarcasm.
But that’s just me…..I love ya all! 🙂
So have you got your lacy frock at the ready, Toby? I’m sure Ria can hardly wait to get home to you!!
LMBO! Ria does have some pictures…ummmm….but I’m not goin there 😀
Wow. Sick and laying low yesterday. Thank God. I’m choosing to not share this with my bride.
thank you, ric. (on choosing not to share it with your bride)
this speaks volumes.
Wow…that’s all I can say. I haven’t commented here in a while and usually read through a reader so I didn’t see all the comments. I ALMOST dropped by to say hi yesterday and now I’m glad I didn’t.
It breaks my heart to see someone so far lost acting as a guide to others! I am so thankful that my wife and I have some amazing leadership at our church to look to and learn from. I will not reply to the comments above because there are too many and it’s too late, all I can do is pray.
Pray for John.
Pray for the marriages who go to him for “coaching”.
Pray that God will open his eyes like Paul on the road.
Pray for the women who have been abused at the hands of like-minded men.
My church is doing a marriage series right now. I’ll paste a link to the videos as it has been an amazing series and has spoken directly to my wife and I in our marriage.
http://www.visitlifepoint.org/media/watch-online/
Love and Prayers to you all.
JG
i thought about this thread of comments all night long. didnt sleep well as the content was heavy on my mind.
i realize there are some here, and whove not commented that feel the comments here were not very loving or godly.
i understand. and see that to a point.
you all know how pleased i am that inprogress is a safe place to come to.
i still believe that.
and yesterday, i felt an intruder made an arrival. that is not to say that someone new cannot be here. no,im not saying that at all. but you cannot step into a community and disrespect its core values and not expect to be questioned or held to it.
at first, several of us attempted to get answers from john. we tried giving him our bent on his views.
that failed.
and, it didnt get any better.
as more came out from this marriagecoach, the more it ignited old wounds and hurts in the hearts of some brave women here.
and they responded. and they had every right to say what they said. im very proud of them.
some, responded with sarcasm and humor. toward the end it got so ridiculous no one knew what to do. no form of communication was helping at that point.
did it get out of hand? was it too harsh? unloving? perhaps.
we all come from different places. certain things trigger emotions in us we never knew existed.
why did this spark the reaction it did? i think we all saw injustice in his views. and a majority of us are victims to some of the things john supports…which are neither healthy or Godly.
john is welcomed to return and answer some of the questions set before him that he dodged. namely…my numbered questions.
bottom line…none of us believe john is doing any good in his practice. we know this from experience with that kind of behavior. my heart truly is burdened for the women who get his coaching and the men who adopt his advice. i think it is a dangerous step backwards and will only breed more insecurity and feeling of worthlessness in women.
that, i cannot support.
Tam
you don’t really know me…i’ve followed you & your friends via your blog & twitter for awhile now. i’ve gained wisdom & seen the love & amazing bonds you all share! i read through your blog yesterday and found both humor & truth in the originating list. Then…due to the tweets i returned to see what was going on…and WOW! i definitely shouldn’t have done that! i was appalled as i read this “counselors” ridiculous views & heard the things he dared to write on his blog. i love how your husband among other amazing husbands stepped in & took up for not only their wives, but women in general. i was up way too late formulating what my response would have been had i been at my computer rather than my phone. i’m so proud of the way that most people responded sarcastic or not.
i think the hardest thing for me to swallow was the comment from his blog “Every woman has a rape fantasy.” i almost threw up. I would love for him to go back to 1988 and tell the petrified 5 year old me, that i should actually be enjoying this grown man forcing himself on me! that one day i would be begging my own husband to violate me in the same way?! i was SO shaken by the concept that any man could ever think a woman would WANT that…i couldn’t sleep, i was thrown back into the fear & feelings i thought were stuffed thoroughly away. i mean RAPE is the epitome of NOT wanting, so for it to be a “fantasy” would be an oxymoron all together. I’m so blessed by the husband i have…how understanding he was in the beginning of our marriage when i had such issues with sex because of my past. my heart breaks for any woman that is exposed to any of this “counseling”. when “spouting” the bible i found it interesting that the woman was “mostly to blame for a failed marriage” but never once the fact that it’s a team project & the husband should be the spiritual leader. and i have to agree with you Tam…my husband would much prefer me to bypass the lace (and cost) & just go to bed naked whenever i’d like!
Tam, thank you for being the incredibly strong woman that you are! thank you for having such amazing followers that refuse to let a creepy bullying sexual predator ruin what you have here! thank you all for standing up for women & marriage! Men, thank you for respecting your wives, & wives for respecting your husbands! I can only pray that this “counselor” was indeed lying & that some woman out there is not quietly enduring his ridiculous views.
your comment has left me in tears.
this is exactly the thing the broke my heart the most yesterday. the memories of abuse that were brought to mind, again, in the women who’ve worked so hard to try and make sense of it all.
to have read his quote on rape fantasy then to read how so many of you have been raped …it made me sick and angry.
i hate, with everything in me, that you had to go through that. i am so very sorry.
i am grateful for the husband you have. for the love you clearly have for him, and he for you. i see your twitters. the gifts you leave him. it blesses my heart to know that you are safe today. that you are loved and cherished and respected like you should be.
thank you for sharing your story here.
and although i dont “know” you…i knew exactly who you were by your name. one day…it would be fun to meet.
i think that leaves us both in tears! you have been an inspiration to me! i am so incredibly blessed with such an amazing husband…something i never knew existed until him! thank you for your encouragement! thank you for letting us all know it’s okay to voice what has happened to us…thank you for providing a safe place to interact!
i look forward to meeting one day…that would be fun! just be sure to bring some of those oh so famous molasses cookies 😉
I am so glad you spoke. I’m sitting in a foyer in a large skyscraper office awaiting to do a presentation and the rain is falling as it hits the panes. Through my tears, mascara running, I am writing to you… I prayed for you today. I am so thankful that God broght you such a wonderful and understanding husband. That’s what intimacy and marriage is all about… knowing what we need to fulfill ourselves. It gives hope.
I also spoke about my rape yesterday, I came out with guns ablazing, but I was so abrazed and punctured to my core by his comments. But I did know something: INPROGRESS is home. I was safe here. Even if anyone would disagree with me I was safe. Too me, safety is all about healing…
Thank you again, nice to meet ya… Welcome to HOME… Tam’s place! It’s alot more than INPROGRESS…it’s a healing place.
Now I need to wash off my mascara!
tears. streaming.
I attempted t0 anwer your questioins on here, but I see that you have taken it down. Why?
John Wilder
ive done no such thing, john. i have not removed one single reply from this thread.
i do not see any response from you to the questions i posted last night. and all of your comments are still here.
so, here you go again…
john…a couple things here…
1. we women here are not offended by lingerie. we’re just practical. and our men would rather see us naked. and, its better for the budget.
2. your about page says you attended two different colleges. do you have degrees from those?
3. are you a licensed coach?
4. where do you practice?
5. why is there no plug for your practice on your blog? no name for it? no contact info?
6. and why on earth did you leave all that info about lingerie??? why? for what purpose? did we ask? do you think youre helping?
im not trying to be argumentative here, i assure you. i am truly, truly curious.
Tam,
I just wanted to say that as a newcomer here I was glad to see the way you and the wonderful community here quickly stood up to John and questioned him. I can see by the way everyone reacted that this is a community I’d enjoy being a part of–one that is full of grace and truth–a community that is discerning and kind in their reproof. You’ve got a great thing going here.
Maranda
And I shudder to think that he’s going around bragging about the number of hits on his blog when all he does is go around and stir up trouble. A certain scripture comes to mind about a divisive man. Sheesh!
i totally missed this comment from you in all the chaos of this day. this really is a tight knit community here. nto one that isnt welcoming tho, but one that is protective and will stand for what is right. im so proud of them! i absolutely love the family here on this blog. i learn so much from each person.
and am so glad you decided to stop by 😉
HOLY CRAP…i can’t believe i missed all of this!
Hey Tam:
I published my comments and answers this morning and it took so you could understand how I might think that you kicked it off. Perhaps it is lost in the internet.
First of all, let me apologize to all who have been offended on here. It was not my intention to cause hurt or offense. I ask for your forgiveness.
2. I attended Missouri Baptist University and earned a BA with adouble major in Behavioral Scienc and Bible. I attended Minnesota State University at Mankato for graduate school majoring in Clinical Pyschology. I quit there because I disagreed with what they were teaching and how they wer teaching it. Today, traditional marriage counselors have a horrendous 75% failure rate (the couples get divorced) in large part in what they do and how they do it. If you would like furher clarification read my blog post on Coaching Versus Counseling. There is a quiet revolution going on in the counseling industry moving away from the counseling model and instead adopting the coaching paradigm. I also attended nursing school in Rochester MN. I had to drop out for financial reasons not academic ones. I deal holistically with all 3 aspects of our being; mind, body and spirit because they are all intertwined. I am one of a handful of clinicians who does so.
3. I am not licensed because there is no license for coaches. I wish that there were. It is still too new. Plus old school counseling are very slow to change or even admit to their fault and their failures. It is a dirty little secret in the industry. I once was doing a radio show explaining this to the listeners when I got a call from a woman in tears on the verge of divorce after 6 MONTHS OF TRADITIONAL MARRIAGE COUNSELING. I helped her solve her problem and had her laughing and joking and on the way home to reunite with her husband in a 15 minute call. I helped resolve her problem instead of talking about feelings like trational marriage counselors do. I will be joining the professional group called AASECT which stands for American Assosciation of Sexual Educators, Counselors and Therapists.
4. I live in Indiana but I practice all over because I don’t make couples come to me, I deal with them by phone or preferably Yahoo IM on camera.
5. I have contact info in my articles but your point is well taken, I need to give contact info, this is because I am very new to blogging and still trying to find my way.
6. I put the article on because it was from a mainstream women’s magazine written by women for women. They endorsed my stance that women should ask their husbands what they like and then consider giving it to them as a way of showing him respect and as an example of your love. I realize that many women are conflicted about their sexuality especially when it comes to lingerie. I ran across a recent statistic that I have lost but it said that 85% of the panties sold in this country are virginal white nylon panteis with no lace. The vast majority of men would prefer something prettier, sexier and lacier with some color. This is a biogical fact of life. In my practice, I have encountered all to many women who have vilified their husband as they have me for expressing their interest. A lot of women make comments like: “I am not wearing that slutty stuff” incorrectly inferring that women who wear such attire are sluts and the woman is not a slut therefore she won’t wear it. It comminicates to the man that the woman thinks his sexuality is dirty, wrong, sexists etc. In other words women good, men bad. Not all women feel that way based upon the evidence from the magazine for women who said the same thing that I did, but I was vilified for it.
I stopped commenting because there was a lynching party going on your site. It certainly was not safe for me. Everyone was slapping each other on the back congratulating each other on going to more and more offensive insults and hate speech.
This is not the first time that I have encountered a fire storm over the mention of sex. I was formerly a minster of youth in a church where I taught a sunday school lesson to the high school class about what the bible defined as sin and what it did not. Too many parents wrongly teach their kids that masturbation is a sin. It is not, nor is it mentioned in the bible. If the bible talks about sex with animals as a sexual sin then surely God would have told us that masturbation was a sin. I got a firestorm from parents informing me that I was not supposed to talk about sex in church. I said did God make a mistake including all the verses about sex in the Bible.
The church is largely to blame for women’s conflicted attitudes about sex. She has been taught from the time that she was a little girl that sex is bad, dirty wrong and sinful. You never hear about all of the positive commands about sex. In fact there is a ministry mandated in churches in Titus 2 where it says that the older women of the church need to teach the younger women how to love their husbands (sexually) so that the Word of God is not blasphemed. We are blaspheming God’s word by getting divorce and harming our children who are devastated and damaged as a result of that divorce. Sex is one of the big 3 that couples fight about.
As to those who were offended over the rape fantasy. I did not say that ALL women have a rape fantasy but a lot do. It is not that women want to be truly raped, but they fantasize about rough sex with a strong self confident man who knows what he is doing in bed. Therre are 16 books on Amazon about women’s rape fantasies written by women. Just because you say it isn’t so does not make it so.
I understand how devastating it is for anyone to be sexually abused. As I said I was a kid as well. There are a lot of women who confess to rape fantasies in spite of their sexual abuse. It is sort of like self empowerment for them to take charge of their own bodies and not give victory to their prior assaulters but I do apologize for those who took offense. I did not bring it up, it was brough by another poster.
A lot of women grew up with a fantasy about happily ever after and did not give a thought about what that looked like for the guy. I suggest that if you love your husband ask him what he would like and promise not get mad at him or put him down the way that you guys have done on here and listen to his answer. That is a reasonable suggestion to which I was subjected to unremitting hate speech.
Finally, I have included biblical excerpts form my chapter on peacefully resolving conflict. I ask you christians in light of these scriptures, do you think that your treatment of me on here best represented the cause of Christ or did you give victory to Satan. I ask you how you would have reacted this vile hate speech. I did not return evil for evil as the bible commands me.
I wish all of you blessings and peace
John Wilder
Let not the sun go down on your wrath.
Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother (friend, wife, husband, other relative) has anything against you; Leave there your gift before the altar, and go your way; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. Mathew 5:23-24
Cease from anger and forsake wrath. Psalm 37:8
He that is slow to wrath is of great understanding; but he that
Is hasty of spirit exalts folly. (foolishness) Proverbs 14:29
A wrathful man stirs up strife; but he that is slow to anger appeases strife. Proverbs 15:18
He that is slow to anger is better than the mighty and he that rules his spirit than he that conquers a city. Proverbs 16:32
A fools lips enter into contention (fighting) Proverbs
Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God. Mathew 5:9 Due to the sinful nature of man, we have a natural predilection to fight among ourselves. Being a peacemaker contributes positively to society at large and families in general. Will you endeavor to be a peacemaker in your own home? And a further biblical note:
If it be possible, as much as lies in you, live peaceably with all men. Romans 12:18
Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying that it may minister grace unto the hearers…Let all bitterness, and wrath an danger, and clamor and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: And be you kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another; even as God for Christ’s sake has forgiven you. Ephesians 4:29,32-32 T
But now you also put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth…Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any; even as Christ forgave you, so also do you…Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands as it is fit in the Lord. Colossians 3:8,13,18.
Brethern, if a man be overtaken in a fault, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in the spirit of meekness; considering yourself, lest you also be tempted. Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. Galatians 6:1-2
Rules For Fair Fighting
1. Never argue in front of the children, it harms and scares them.
2. Don’t ever hit your spouse.
3. Don’t call your spouse names, it is abusive.
4. Don’t attempt to get your way by bullying your spouse.
5. Don’t with hold sex to get your way.
6. Do not scream at your spouse.
7. Do not interrupt, it is disrespectful, listen until they are done.
8. Do not take revenge for perceived hurts.
9. Develop a peacemaking attitude with questions like: How can we resolve this?
10. Don’t give people the “silent treatment”. It is revenge and it is emotionally abusive.
John (see comment above)
Thanks for coming back to the table to answer some questions from Tam… one question I have for you is, where did you learn that in counseling, you don’t tell someone their behavior is inherently ineffective? Though counseling doesn’t emphasize “right” “wrong” techniques, it most CERTAINLY does emphasize effective and ineffective/ workable and not workable… JUST like coaching.
And being a corporate trainer/developer for over two decades, I can tell you – coaching, more so than counseling, includes the art of ENcouragement… building “courage” into others… and the best way to do that is to validate a persons “worth” “value” their “personhood”… perhaps starting from that perspective in all of your comments and responses might facilitate your success rate even MORE?
It sounds like you have some good successes… here is my question… have you done longitudinal studies on those couples? How long does the sex fix work? I would definitely be curious to hear more about that.
Second, IF (just an idea) you started from a place of validating the PERSON, how much MORE successful could you be? Just a curiosity… I’m not in your sessions, so I don’t know what exactly you say or don’t say – you may come across completely different in person… I don’t know…
Finally, with all of your training – why did you not go all the way to getting licensure? Most coaches I know have also gotten licensure in counseling – it gives them double credentials… just curious.
Anyway, just some curiosities…
Jenny
“This is not the first time that I have encountered a fire storm over the mention of sex”
that was not why the storm occurred. the way in which you spoke to women here was very demeaning. we all see that, and several have tried to communicate that to you.
if this is what coaching is like, i can understand why those in this specific field of it can not become licensed.
i mean no disrespect to you as a person. i am just in full disagreement with what you practice. how you come across in ‘helping’ others and your seemingly inability to see women as more than just objects in frilly’s.
and no woman here ever said she didnt or wouldnt wear those special nighties for her man. but no woman wants to be forced into it.
and yes, another poster did bring up the “rape fantasy” quote. but, lest we forget…you were the one who actually said it.
i love this verse you shared with us…
“Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth”
i wholeheartedly agree. i realized this morning that the myriad of replies here come from many different places. men speak from the position of having spent years helping his precious bride heal from sexual abuse, rape, ridiculous expectations (things you seem to be a proponent of) so, the men responded in the way they know how. and, having read several pages of your blog im sure you will excuse the mens comments here for they are just responding how they know how to.
the women here….they come from so many different backgrounds. you hit a nerve. and not a good one. i hope you see that, john. the ‘advice’ you gave here lends nothing to the betterment of these women. it seems you are more concerned with the betterment of the man and his satisfaction so im guessing the betterment of the woman, her well being-mentally, physically, sexually and spiritually, are less of a concern to you.
again….i gather this simply from 3 pages of your blog and what you have written here.
and how does that verse above also apply to you? i believe a majority of what you are communicating, and how you do so, is corrupt.
you mentioned earlier that men are affirmed sexually.
my husband, brent, laughed at that. you couldnt be more incorrect, john.
men are SATISFIED sexually. they are AFFIRMED by the support of their bride. but i’ll let the men speak to that.
now, in all of this, you did accomplish something good here. there are several women who poured out their hearts in this thread out of anger. out of righteous anger. responses i support fully. they were able to communicate their deepest, darkest angry feelings on what it was like to be abused and taken advantage of. it was, oddly, freeing for them. im thrilled for them cuz i know the weight that has been lifted from their weary hearts.
so for the feathers you ruffled that produced such reaction…thank you, john 🙂 im being totally sincere.
Last night as I laid in bed I prayed for all those who were involved in this discussion.
I think we can all agree that male/female relationships contain the potential to create great things and, unfortunately, the seed for contention. We are wired differently and on purpose but we are also both made in the image of God. There in lies the ability for us to celebrate and honor our differences. And to even leverage the different strengths that those differences create.
Where she is strong, I may be weak. Where I am strong, she may be weak. Together we create something special… something ordained by God as a union (speaking of marriages here).
Yesterday we saw the disunity that can occur when words are either misunderstood or used in the wrong context.
I don’t believe John meant to come across in the manner that he did. I am not excusing the things that may be deemed inappropriate or tactless. (By the way, if a companion post had been put up pointing out men’s inadequacies, I am sure that our emotional shallowness would make the list.)
John, I have this message for you. I say it in love and with the deepest humility. While you hope to do good, you bring a mixed message that causes confusion. I applaud your desire to use biblical precepts to build your practice from, however, after reading through some of your blog and comments here, your approach to male-female interaction (especially in the area of sex) does not fully agree with the bible that I understand. There are beautiful components to sex and love that the bible directs us to celebrate. And, yes, the church should teach it – in the right environment and under the right contexts. There is a season for everything.
I will not hash through it all because it is not the place or time to do so but I will point to the section of your blog that instructs men on how to go about lowering the guard of a woman in order to get her to willingly have sex with him. At the point you mention trying to lower the guard of the female you have undermined any trust foundations that are necessary for a long lasting relationship. Sex is supposed to be a celebration of the union that both parties submit to as a mutual service. What you describe in your blog is manipulation at its basest level. That does not agree with the character of the God that I read about in the pages of His word.
Again, I wish to reiterate that I believe you meant to be a help and that you fully believe in the message that you are wishing to teach. It is just not a message that will be received well within a Christian context because of the misrepresentation of how men and women are to love and honor each other.
My hope is that you will take some time to re-evaluate your position on male/female interaction from a biblical standpoint. I am not stating this from any position of authority… Lord knows that I am always learning and growing based on the mistakes that are pointed out in my life by both those that love me and by constantly admitting that I need to continue to learn and lean on the word.
I say these things because I believe you truly want to help and I would like see you succeed within a biblical worldview.
As for the words spoken by others, I can only point to grace and say that we all need forgiveness and understanding. There were reactionary words that I hope were expressed more in surprise and not meant to damage or hurt. This is not my blog so I cannot go any further than that as I feel I have already overstepped my bounds in this comment.
Having read Tam’s blog for a while I think I know her heart well enough to know that her hope is that we would all know the healing grace that Christ supplies. Ultimately, that is the only hope that any of us have as we are all fallen and broken people.
Peace, Grace and Love
I have a couple of little questions. Are you married, John? How long have you been married? Have you been married before? Do you use these techniques with your wife? Do you have children? What are their ages. Just curious.
“If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?” -1 Timothy 3:5
Jenny thanks for the constructive criticsim. I knew better to anwer because I would just get it thrown back in my face. I apologized and asked for forgiveness for having caused offense. I gave scriptures about conflict is supposed to be handled and all I get is more hate speech and insults.
If more people had followed Jenny’s example we could have had a healthy discussion instead of the online lynching I underwent. It should be noted that not one person has apologized for the hate speech.
I am reminded of an experiment from colllege where there was a brood of chickens all of the same breed and another chicken was inroduced into the flock that was a of a different breed and the chickens surrounded it and pecked it to death.
So I am leaving not to give cause for more sin and hate speech on this column.
Blessings on you and yours
John Wilder
john, did you not see my last response to you? there was nothing hateful in it. im finding it completely fascinating that you see some of our questions and concerns as hateful.
there were those who had fun with this thread. and it was in a effort to lighten things up. but i cannot speak for them and i wont.
i did not disrespect you. i asked, maturely, questions. i challenged you. i think the problem you might be having is that you see truth in our words and you just cant be wrong.
Tam – you asked GREAT questions and you were not hateful at all.
So, here’s the rub John, you didn’t answer my questions. at all. any of them… how come?
thoughts?
I find it very convenient that he didn’t answer mine either. And they also were posted nicely…I guess they were consider hateful too.
Tam I am not saying that your response was hateful. But others were. I appreciate Tony Yorks understanding. As to the rape fantasy I have already stated that there are 16 books on Amazon all written by WOMEN about secret rape fantasies. As to the being taken roughly by a strong self confident man, I AM QUOTING WOMEN WHO HAVE SAID THAT! IT SEEMS TO BEST REPRESENT THE THINKING ABOUT THE RAPE FANTASY.
As to lingerie, I put up an article from a mainline women’s magaazine written by women for women who validate how affirming it can be for your man to wear lacy frilly lingerie but I am the asshole. Why did you posters not go on the magazine web site and vilify the associate editor who published it?
For heavens sake I even had some women commenting on how ugly and unnactrive I was. Most of you are showing no effort to understand me you have become a mob and joined in at my expense. I have given biblical principles about sex but again I am the asshole. I put on biblical principles on how you are to disagree and you have all ignored that. I apologized for having caused offense. I don’t see the same consideration in return. You are entitled to your opinion. Just because you say it is so, does not mean that it is so. I don’t have to own it. I will modify how I suggest to women in the book about wearing lingerie for their husbands. We are all adults but I can see that there are a lot of women who have real problems dealing with lingerie. Women can and do wear what they want, I simply suggesting asking your men what they would like and consider giving it to them but that makes me an asshole. I don’t own that critique and I stand by my statement. If you don’t like it, it is your right to disagree. And this is absolutely my last comment on here, YOU HAVE NO MORE RIGHT TO VERBALLY ASSAULT ME THAN I DO TO PHYSICALLY ASSAULT YOU.
I decided not to read the last manifesto that John wrote. I have come such a long way in recovery and have learned to remain open-minded. I could only stay that way for so many comments, then had to take a step back. I can see a lot of people did the same thing. EVERY comment (other than John’s) left, was left in love and respect for each other. No one commenter attacked another. Some comments were sarcastic (1 or 2 of mine, for example), and I wouldn’t change a thing. Well, maybe I wouldn’t have said penis, but at least I wasn’t hungry for a hot dog/meatball sandwich!
I may not like the way John approaches women, but I do have to find some compassion for his twisted thinking. So resistant & rude. So closed-minded to what real women have to say (and men for that matter). It’s John’s Wild, Twisted World.
Well, guess what, John? It’s not. It’s God’s World. Each of us a creation that is beyond my comprehension. Sharing ideas. Not cramming them down one’s throat. Loving each other. Not making it all about sex 24/7. Respecting each other. Not tearing each other down. I pray you learn from this nearly 200 comment long comment section. Open your mind to others view(s) without being so dog-gone mean.
Tam, I hope you sleep better tonight. You meant for this to be light-hearted. It turned into something cathartic for a lot of men and women. We can ALL learn from this conversation. Take some of the weight off your shoulders. We are all (well most of us) here to help shift that weight so it’s not so heavy!
“It is not that women want to be truly raped, but they fantasize about rough sex with a strong self confident man who knows what he is doing in bed.”
there is SO much wrong with this *one* sentence i can barely see straight! This guy claims he was sexually abused as a child…but it seems he never actually experienced rape. From my experience a rapist is the farthest thing from a self confident man! Even less to do with a man who knows what he is doing in bed! are you kidding me?!?! since when has a rapist ever, EVER been a man that held self confidence? There is such a ridiculous difference in “rough” sex & FORCED sex. i’m so mad i’m shaking right now.
Good riddance. i’ve looked this guy up on ‘pipl’ and found a couple other sites he’s posted on…basically it’s all copy & paste…not too original, not very thought provoking. This “lynching” he’s felt isn’t the first time. Great advice from my mom: if everyone else has the same problem with you…you might need to start realizing that the common denominator is you.
just saying
John,
You say you’re not going to post here anymore, but I get the feeling you’re likely still reading, so I’d like to address a few points.
First, the reason none of us went to the lingerie site to “vilify” the editor is that is not our community. THIS is our community. Many of us have been reading Tam’s blog for years. We’ve seen her and her family grow, and we’ve grown right beside her. So when someone suddenly comes in and starts saying that any one of us is doing something all wrong, it should be no surprise that we’re a little stunned. THIS is our place to communicate that. This is our home. A lingerie site that shares your views on the matter and was merely dragged into the conversation is not the place to communicate any disagreement.
Second, I would like to apologize on behalf of the entire community if you feel that these comments were full of hate. Many of us are just trying to understand your point of view and have a healthy debate. At the same time, we also want to have a little fun. This community is so great at making each other laugh, even in the midst of a tough conversation. I’m sorry if you felt any of that was a personal attack rather than just a sarcastic disagreement with your comments.
However, repeatedly referring to this as an “online lynching” is a bit extreme. It seems to me you WANT to be the victim here. I’m not saying there necessarily is a victim on either side here. But you’re certainly playing the part. If you had said some of the same things you said here in other communities, you would have heard much worse things. People would not have tried to understand your point of view before going on the offensive. As much as you are saying we are vilifying you, you are doing the same to us.
Finally, you have repeatedly pointed out the 16 (out of how many million?) books on Amazon…that this means that there are a significant amount of women who have this fantasy. This logic is inherently flawed. Even if we say that each of those women represent 100 (as in one letter to your senator represents 100 people), that is 160 of roughly 150 million women in just the US. I honestly have no problem admitting that there are a few women out there who have fantasies about rape. But to globalize like that is a horrible manipulation of statistics and facts. Would it be fair to you for “us women” to say that because any of the well-documented serial rapists did the things they did, all men must have those fantasies? Just because some women have fantasies or do horrible things does not mean that’s the rule. You implied that we must be the exceptions. No–we are the rule. The women who wrote those books are the exceptions.
As offended and hurt as many (if not all) of us have been throughout this conversation, I thank you for it nonetheless. At the end of the day, this community is stronger for it. As individuals, we’re better for it. Maybe we each have stuff going on deep down we didn’t know about before this conversation occurred (which is why I said there may not necessarily be victims here, despite obvious hurts). I pray that you’re better off for it too. I pray that you take to heart the perspective that we have tried to offer. We’re all in progress here. I pray you allow this experience to help you grow as a person.
girl, thank you for this. what a beautiful reply.
wow…
I am the first to acknowledge I am a person in progress. I’m not perfect. I screw up. I try my best to learn from my mistakes.
As a preschool special education teacher, many times I am the first person to say to a family these hard words: “your child has a disability.” Next to hearing the news a beloved family member has passed away, this is probably one of the hardest messages that family is going to hear. What I have learned from having this conversation many times (and screwing up many times) is this: while the message may be the same, not everyone can receive the intended message the same way.
While I personally take issue with many of the things that have been discussed here, I suppose my words of caution are strongest for the manner in which they were presented. As people in a human services field we must not assume everyone is going to receive information in the same way, particularly in the form of text where 80% of the message is lost due to the lack of non-verbal communication. More to the point, we must not assume our audience is going to receive the message in its intended form because, well, we do not know our audience well — where they are, what they believe, what they hold dear.
The basic rules of communication in setting where clear understanding are paramount tell us we must not only communicate in a manner appropriate to our audience (based on the above mentioned and other information) but check for understanding. In other words, we must do everything we can to make sure the message we send will be perceived as intended and check to make sure it was, so if we need to modify our message we can.
John, I for one am not certain your message was perceived as you intended. This communication failed.
As I said, I do not agree with much you suggested, but that is me. I am sure there are those that would agree with you and it’s not my place to tell you what to believe. In my field I can find a piece of research or a case study to support just about any position I wish to take on any given issue and I am fairly certain the same can be said for yours.
I might suggest that the considerations of who your audience is and what they are bringing to the table be applied before constructing your responses in the future. In my own field I have found a notable difference in the reception of messages between persons who solicited my help and those who have not. Perhaps that also applies to situations such as these. Persons who are soliciting your help may be open to ideas such as these and in the manner in which you presented them here. The responses of the people here, however, would suggest that the manner in which your ideas were presented was not well received.
As I stated, while I do not agree with many of your views I realize that we are all people in progress. The people here have raised some interesting points in response to your ideas. Just as in child development there are differing ideas of how kids learn there are differing ideas about how marriages and relationships should work.
I believe the Bible is the measure for how life should work. That’s my belief. While some topics are explicitly addressed in the Bible (murder, adultery, lying) others are not so clear (drinking whole or skim milk). As with all counsel, it is the responsibility of a follower of Christ to measure that counsel against that which is revealed to us in the Scriptures. Some counsel is clearly in error (you can cheat on your taxes), other may not be explicitly mentioned and must be measured against the convictions of the person as informed by the Scriptures, the prompting of the Holy Spirit, circumstances, and prayer.
I, for one, do not drink alcohol. This is my conviction: I should not drink alcohol. Note I did not say “no one should drink alcohol.” (I have a wife who really enjoys a margarita every now and then. 🙂 ) This is a conviction for me because of two things: first, nothing is to come before God in my life; second, I have a very addictive personality and a family history with alcoholism. Because of this informed conviction, I do not drink alcohol.
It is important to note what I said there: “This is a conviction for ME.” (emphasis added) What may not be appropriate for me may be completely appropriate for someone else.
Hear me out, John. For some women it may be a display of their love and affection for their husband to wear frilly night clothes all the time, for others it may not. While it is true men are visual creatures (probably why pornography is such an issue for many of us, myself included — a person in progress remember?), the decision of what to wear to bed is not the only way to show love and affection, nor is it a mandate from any Scripture.
For some women it may be a strong belief that they should wear revealing attire to bed every night and they may reap benefits from that decision in their marriage. Others may reap the same benefits from caring for their husband when he is ill or giving him a night to spend with friends. So if we are talking about truths here, my truth would be, Yes, I would like to see my wife in something provocative every night, but it’s not wrong for her to not do it, nor is it my right to expect so.
This is just an example of what I think. As I said, I am a person in progress, as we all are. Please take this for what it is, a kind message from one imperfect person to another.
Kind regards,
brett
hi brett…thank you for your words here. i appreciate how articulate and kind-loving they are.
this thread has shed light in the lives of all who were involved here. we learned a lot. be it…about lingerie, about what to do or not to do but probably more on how to communicate.
yes, the written word is tricky. unfortunately…the written word of john remained the same and it ‘seemed’ his agenda was to communicate one thing only. this is where the community here threw up their hands.
yes, we are all in progress. i hope we all took away something constructive. something that would better who we are and how we communicate in the future.
again…i truly appreciate you taking your time to share your thoughts here.
please feel free to make this your home.
tam
*munches on some popcorn*
what, is the show over?
*throws popcorn on the ground*
sonofa… I guess I’ll just take back my manny-panties and banana-hammock.
*chuckle* manny panties. *chuckle*
I am so glad I was late to this party… SO glad.
I love you and Brent, and how you both handled this.
Sex is a beautiful gift from God. There are many positive commands about sex in the bible including the one to have a great sex life in Proverbs 5. The church has taught girls from the time tha tthey were little that sex is bad,dirty and wrong and good girls don’t do it.
Clearly the comments indicated that there are a lot of women who are conflicted about their sexuality. All I can say is that your body is the most precious gift that you can give to your husband. I have just one question for you. If you are going to get a gift, would you want it in a rumpled old paper sack, or would you want it in pretty paper and frilly ribbons?
Clearly most of you need to learn the difference between aggressive communication and assertive communication. Assertive communication has you disagreeing with a person,, explaining your reasons without putting the other person down and respecting the other person. Then there is the attacking, verbal put down method that is aggressive that most of you demonstrated. I am a brother in Christ and this is not the commandment that Christ taught.
There is a new take on the old Golden rule. It says don’t treat people the way that you want to be treated, but treat them the way that they want to be treated. In other words, women you could romance your husband by giving him flowers which do nothing for him or you could romance him wearing the things that he likes. It is your choice. Why not think about what happily ever after means to him and doing that?
Blessings
John Wilder
mr. wilder…
“There are many positive commands about sex in the bible including the one to have a great sex life in Proverbs 5”
no one here said they dont have a great sex life. nor did anyone say they are against sex.
i love sex. all those with me, say *I*! 😉
“Clearly the comments indicated that there are a lot of women who are conflicted about their sexuality”
i think you are reading the comments wrong. and possibly because you are on the offense. which, i can understand…youve been challenged greatly here on this thread. but i dont believe there is a conflict in women here about their sexuality. in fact, i think their comments prove they are not conflicted. they confidently stood up to the notion that they are merely objects.
“If you are going to get a gift, would you want it in a rumpled old paper sack, or would you want it in pretty paper and frilly ribbons?”
that all depends on the individual, mr. wilder. it is not for everyone and should not be expected of everyone. but if that works for your wife and you…then great. more power to you. it works for many couples. but not all. but shouldnt be forced.
“Clearly most of you need to learn the difference between aggressive communication and assertive communication”
i already attempted to explain to you the reasoning behind the myriad of responses to you here. you advocate things that stir up horrific memories for some women. just because they responded in the manner they did does not mean they are not healthy now, nor does it mean they do not know how to please their man.
“Then there is the attacking, verbal put down method that is aggressive that most of you demonstrated”
most? i dont think so. another overshoot of your stats. so many people replied to you asking great questions, respectfully. firm? yes. most, you did not adequately reply to.
“I am a brother in Christ and this is not the commandment that Christ taught.”
im not going to bring up here some of the things you support on your blog. but think about what you advocate, the things you suggest and support (think rape fantasy) and tell me that is Christ-like.
“or you could romance him wearing the things that he likes.”
and i think what some were trying to tell you is…not all men get off solely on lingerie every night. there are other ways to appeal to our husbands. and we all know what works and what doesnt. why assume we dont?
“Why not think about what happily ever after means to him and doing that?”
again…who said we dont?
let me make it easy for you here…
you came on giving unsolicited advice to women.
you offended women by enforcing your views on them.
you further offended men and women here by some of your outlandish suggestions.
you dodged questions.
you threw a woman under the bus (lingerie links that no one asked for and was thoroughly out of left field) to take the attention off you.
now…you were offended. my apologies for that. whether you are right or wrong here…you deserve respect. but know this, mr. wilder, i, and all here, will stand up for what we believe is right. period. this isnt a fight club or anything like that, i assure you…but you happened to enter a community of broken people. people who suffered tragic abuses in their past. women who have been tormented, men who have been crushed. people who are in the process of healing and redemption. you represented the picture most have worked years on deleting.
do you understand this??
I understand your point of view, I just don’t agree with it. Where did you get the idea that I was trying to FORCE anything on anyone. I SUGGESTED that women talk to their husband and ask them what they would like. They can and do anything that they want.
I did not come on suggesting enacting rape fantasies. That was brought up by a poster who read my blog. I am more careful than that realizing that there have been women who were raped and tragically many by their own fathers. I am reaching out to different audiences. I am a christian but I realize that non christians read my blog as well. I am trying to reach the non christian as well as the christian. As to enacting the rape fantasy, there is nothing non Christ like about it. Hebrews 13:4 says that the marriage bed is undefiled in all. That means the old testament laws about clean and unclean no longer apply and that there is nothing between a husband and wife that is sinful. The rape fantasy is not the guy’s idea but the women’s idea. To put that down is to put down women and their fantasies. It is one thing to say that you have no desire to go there, it is another thing to judge it and put it down. Book publishers don’t waste money trying to reach a minority of society but publish books that reach the masses. Like it or not there are 16 different books all written by women about rape fantasies on Amazon. So the sin was not with me but with your poster who carelessly tossed it into the discussion like a hand grenade not thinking about the consequences of women on here who have been raped.
Again the idea for putting on the lingerie article was because I was being so put down ,called a pervert etc. I wanted to show that the article I posted was from a main stream WOMAN’s magazine written by women for women.
I stopped answering questions because people were not interested in my answers but were just seeking more reasons to attack me. Remember assertive communicatioin is stating your reasos for disagreement without the put downs. I meant no one any harm but many people openly showed me contempt and condescension.
One of the reasons that I brought it up is because so many christian women have a problem with lacy lingerie. I had an assosciate pastor 30 years ago who was young and had a young beautiful wife. She REFUSED to wear anything llke that for her husband and was defiantly so. She considered it slutty. I deal with the majority of people not the minority in trying to resolve problems. It broke his heart and mine for him. The church had so conditioned her to consder sex dirty and wrong. I have a best friend whose wife also refuses to wear anything remotely sexy in bed or out of it whether or not they are going to have sex, another christian woman who has had it beat into her head that wearing anything sexy is slutty.
I appreciate those who chose to remain constructive in their criticism. They role modeled the proper way of handling conflict. Too many women talk to their husbands the way that the women talked to me, especially about sex. Men are told that they are bad, wrong, perverted etc. God made us this way, blame God. Just because men like things frilly does not objectify women. That is a feminist philosophy. Sadly feminist philosophy has infected the churches. I ask, when have you ever seen a feminist point anyone to Jesus?
But you are right, things got challenging and I believe that leassons were learned. To that end, I will suffer the slings and arrows to promote better understanding between men and women.
I will answer anyone’s questions as long as they are posed respectfully without the put downs. I had a woman come on to my blog site from your blog who I answered questions. We came to an understanding, she still did not like some of my suggestions, but they are only suggestions. People are free to accept it or reject it as they see fit, but she dealt with me respectfully and I appreciated it.
Blessings on you and yours
John Wilder
when you say stuff like this…
“Whenever a man says anything remotely critical about the woman, she must immediatley go on the attack and verbally brutalize the man so he gets the message that he must never ever do that again, although it is perfectly all right and her right to critique the man.”
[she MUST? very broad statement mr. wilder. is this all women? i think not. i know not]
“Fails to wear lacy frilly lingerie for the guy but persists in wearing deeadly dull white nylon panties with no lace and utiltiatrian bras and heaven forbid that she actually wear a sexy nighty every night.”
[“fails”. “fails”means to be unsuccessful in achieving ones goals. so when you use words like “fails” it is very insulting to a group of women, who you are primarily speaking to here. think about it.]
“We have a 50% divorce rate so there are signicant numbers of women who have problems.”
[and again…its the womans fault. im guessing, and sorry if im right, you have been hurt by women.]
“What women fail to realize is that men are not proactive in general in relationships, they are reactive. In other words women reap what they sew.”
[yet again…it is our fault when a man responds poorly to our words/actions. do you see how disrespectful and demeaning your words are to women? i really dont believe you do]
“Too many women pooh this desire and do what they want, again not respecting the man.”
[“do what they want”. it is clear you have a deep dislike for feminists. but women are also allowed to have preferences. you speak as if women dont, and shouldnt, have a choice]
“Women make the mistake of berating a guy for his jerkiness. This attacks a man at his core. Respect is way more important to him than sex and you know how us guys value sex”
[here it seems as tho its ok for the guy to be a jerk and demand sex and the woman should not address his jerkiness. ya know…if a man is an ass…a woman should approach that and bring it to his attn.without feeling as if we’re the wrong ones “reaping what we sew”]
“Why do guys get so predictable and self centered when it comes to sex?”
[i dont believe they do. but in those who might…perhaps its because they demand too much from their wives (which is a sign of selfishness)]
this is all i have the energy for tonight…
please keep in mind…you are a guest here. you are welcomed to remain here – i enjoy meeting new people. but it is clear that some of the views you have and the way in which you relentlessly promote them and yourself is, indeed, crossing the line. im sorry you find it difficult to understand this.
and also know…”tone” is lost in the written word. i am not upset in anyway, shape or form right now. i assure you.
I realized that I failed to adequately deal wtih abuse in my answer. I understand abuse all too well. I was sexually abused by a Catholic priest. I was abused by my parents, a cold distant alchoholic mother and a horribly abusive, cruel and sadistic father who enjoyed inflicting pain. I won’t put it on here, but for any of you who are interested, go to my blog and look up the post of The Story of How I Got To Be Me In The Helping Professions.
Too many people have tried to deal with past abuse by just shoving it down in their guts and trying to forget it. That won’t work. You need therapy and healing from it. I am healed from mine and it is no longer a horror in my life, but an unfortunate fact of life that helps me to understand and deal with people who have been abused. I urge any of you who have not head specific therapy for dealing with your abuse to seek it out. You can be healed, especially if you are a christian. The Holy Spirit is also called the Comforter.
Blessings on all who are on here
John Wilder
John,
I’m sorry you had to go through all you went through in your life. It couldn’t have been easy… and you made it. That takes a good chunk of strength.
With that said, could it be possibly you’ve taken all your experience and subconsciously turned it into a source of “perceived control”? In most of your comments here, you’ve written in a way that comes across as you as the “in-the-right” and all-knowing. As an outsider, it appears as though your desire to control everyone’s viewpoint and share your “knowledge” takes precedence over helping with actual healing. As someone who’s been abused, I can see how reading most (if not all) of what you wrote could trigger someone’s past abuse experience.
As a coach, I’d like to encourage you to be more careful with your words. It seems you’ve spent more time defending and clarifying your words here than you have expressing your thoughts, though you’ve done PLENTY of that here too.
Praying for you… and yours…
Jenni
Jenny
Your point is well taken. Okay its time for me to be vulnerable here. My father was horribly abusive. That is not what affected me. What affected me was an experience that changed my life forever. I was 12 years old and in my room. The police brought my 6 year old brother home because he was caught vandalizing his school by throwing paint all over ( he would go on to spend time in prison because of the after effects of his abuse). My father assured the cop that he would “Discipline my brother” in addition to him having to pay restitution for the damage that he had done. He took him back to his bedroom next door to mine and the one that he shared with our 3 year old brother. He started beating him vicsiously and would not stop. I was convinced that he was going to kill my little brother as I listened helplessly to his blood curdling screams. I was furious with blind rage. I feverishly tried to figure out how to stop him but I was only 12. I looked at my baseball bat and considered hitting him with it, but over ruled that because of several scenarios. He could take it away from me and kill me with it.
I could hit him in the head and knock him out, but was afraid that he would kill me once he regained conciousness or I could hit him in the head and KILL HIM AND go to jail with adults. In the end I sat there in tears of rage and HATING MYSELF becausse I could not protect my little brother. Finally the beating stopped. He had literally worn himself out beating on my little brother and had to go sit down in his recliner and regain his strength and his wind. Then he came back in and continued to beat on him. I vowed when I got big enough and strong enough, I woould never ever allow bullying and beating to go on under my watch, even if I did not know the people. There was no one to protect me and my brothers. By the way women, for every hateful comment you hurl, it feels like a punch in the face to your guy. As much as the physical beatings hurt me, they were nothing to compare to the verbal beatings I have endured from women. I have re written an old nursery rhyme to make it more accurate: STCKS AND STONES CAN ONLY BREAK YOUR BONES BUT WORDS CAN WOUND A SPIRIT, BREAK A HEART OR KILL A RELATIONSHIP.
Sadly abused children often grow up to marry abusive spouses. My first two marriages were to verbally abusive women. I was at a loss because the woman who was supposed to love me again verbally abused and bullied me. This is because I did not hit them or scream at them.
I am 60 years old and have seen too many mistakes made by peop;le. I went to school got degrees in Bible Theology and Behavioral Science vowing to help.
It is further troublesome for me to deal with bullying comments directed at me on this site that is supposed to be safe for all concerned. I have ssen too many marriages broken up by rebellious women who refused to follow any biblical leadership no matter how lovingly it is given. I have seen feminism creep into the churches and turn our women. Jesus said that people teach for doctrine the commandments of men (or in this case women) It is for this reason that pastors don’t teach about the positive commands about sex in the bible because women get so upset and rebellious. I ignited a firestorm because I suggested to women that they consider wearing frilly lacy lingerie to show their husbands love and respect.
This is a reasonable suggestion. Too many women put men down because of their sexuality and tell them that they are perverted, sinful etc. This is the way that God made us. It has been the feminists that say that if you wear something frilly that it objectifies you. I would suggest to you to read the Song of Solomon. What I further sugggest is to have some introspection at what feminsts have taught you perhaps even by osmosis and have incorporated into your psyche. It is not God honoring. These same feminists say that it is okay to kill innocent unbron children.
Again, think about it, where do you find in the bible where it says that it is okay for women to demand the right to say no their husbands? I am calling on women to honor their husbands as the bible commands. What I have seen on this site is not God honoring. I was a former minister but left that because I was treated so rudely by the women in the churches becasue I held them to the biblical standard. I felt like that my ministry was not preaching any way but teaching.
I hear every opinion on here but I disagree with them and you want me to say apparently everyone is right and anything anyone chooses to do or say is fine. This is not what the bible is about. Specifiically there is nothing in the bible forbidding women from engaging in a rape fantasy by the way. I can only teach what the bible forbids as sexual sin.
I hope that this helps to further explain me and my point of view.
Blessings on all of you
John Wilder
mr wilder….you began this last comment to jenny telling her of your treacherous childhood…for which i am deeply sorry for.
then, you went right on, again, promoting you.
im sorry you are angry. angry at women. angry at abuse.
we are not your enemies. nor will we be your victims here.
i wish you well. i wish you healing.
but i forbid you to return to this site. any future comments will be reported as spam.
john…
again, i’m sorry for your childhood. i so wish it could have been different for you.
i’m sorry you feel misunderstood.
i’m sorry important women in your life have hurt you.
i’m sorry for how attacked you feel.
i’m sorry you left ministry (or ministry left you) with a bad taste in your mouth.
i’m sorry you spelled my name wrong.
as a fellow social and behavioral science major, i’d like to encourage you to seek out counseling and for you to stop counseling others. i can truly tell you are NOT ready, though i’m sure you’ll disagree.
you keep going back to the frillies and rape fantasy. i’ve read the bible multiple times… studied it, even… and am certain God calls men to LOVE their wives… not violate them and control them again their will. rape is NOT loving no matter how you try to spin that, john.
wives are to respect their husbands, yes… but it’s a heart issue. respect comes with support, encouragement, words of affirmation and “services”. however… “frillies” (though it’s got it’s positive sides) is a silly band-aid to a problem that usually requires something more like a major surgery. now, john, we all know you’re not a doctor, but why in the world would you but a band-aid on an artery that’s bleeding out. that’s just silly, don’t you think?
oh… and, btw, song of solomon is about untamed, NAKED love… not frillies. but i digress…
john. here’s the deal: you also don’t get to judge what women think and feel towards their husbands off of what they comment towards you, no matter how much more you think you know. YOU are NOT their husband. you do NOT know what goes on for them behind closed doors. not every relationship is dysfunctional and not every relationship is asking for your help.
not once did i ask you to explain you OR your viewpoint. i feel i already know it from reading all your other comments. i’m not going to invite you to banter with me because i truly have nothing else i feel i need to banter with you about and my sweet friend, Tam (who has more God honoring post AND comments here on her blog than most people have thoughts in their whole entire lifetime), has uninvited you to this party (a first for her… don’t you find that interesting?).
i’m not taking any of this personally. i’m not even offended at what you’re saying. i’m sad for you… mostly because i think you have more than one personality disorder mixed with some narcissism in your 60 year-old hurt and wounded body. (do you ever hear voices, john? don’t do what they say, ok?)
one day, you’ll be whole… when we are in eternity with our Maker and i look forward to meeting you then.
till then… know i’ll pray for you every time i think about “that-one-time-tam’s-blogsite-got-hijacked-by-the-grandpa-in-a-suit-and-tie”.
sorry you don’t get to talk back after this… but it’s probably better for all of mankind.
blessings to you AND yours. no. really… blessings…
your asian, female, NON-feminist friend (sort of not really)
Jenni
Hey Tam:
Do I realize that there are exceptions to every rule, of course. Do I think that all women are the same. of course not. The best way to explain myself and my “offensive statements” is from economics. In economics there is macro, world view and micro, in your own house. Women react like I am talking specifically to her who get offended. I am speaking of women in general because I deal with a lot of people and the commonalities of what causes problems in relationships. For example 60% of women limit their husbands to sex once a week or less. Is this a problem, for most men it is. There are of course exceptions where women want sex more so than do their men. This also leaves 40% of the women who are comfortable having sex more often.
You must realize, I don’t deal with the ones who have sex more often and are quite comfortable wearing sexy lingerie for their husbands. They have no need of my services or rather their husbands have no need of my services. So the ones who don’t wear lingerie and don’t have sex very often go on the attack when the husband complains about his needs not being taken care of. Do I think lingerie is the solution to all problem s, of course not. It is one part of an overall relationship and is a barometer of the relationship. Women who take care of their husband’s needs have a healthy relationship and a respect for hm and his needs
For those who don’t they are setting up land mines in their relationship that over time withers away at the relationship and the relationship ultimately fails. Now my problem with the relationship failing is that kids are hurt. We have very serious problems with kids of divorce in this country and the emotional fall out because of that.
Now I understand that my direct style can be offputting for some people, especially for intuivitve feeler emotional types. They see me as hard, cold and unfeeling. For the record I am an ENTJ on the Meuer Briggs scale which is more associated with entrepreneurial types rather than counseling types. So this is a continuing handicap for me that I constantly strive to soften.
On the other hand, I find that people who get most upset are the onese who are typically the most guilty of what I am talking about. The ones who don’t get upset are not confronted with what I am talking about and have a good relationship and see no threat in my words.
Do I think that guys should not be confronted for jerkiness, yes they should be confronted, but it is still important to do so without being offensive and attacking.
Your point is taken that I perhaps should have stated refuses to wear rather than fails to wear. It is more accurate and more accurately recognizes that this is a concious choice rather than an accidental oversight.
In coaching or counseling, it is easier to go from simple to complex. Men are generally easier and not as complex as women. Small things can yield big results with men. In working with couples I work on the basics first. It really does not get any more basic for a guy than for a woman to make a change to make him happy such as choosing to wear frilly lingerie for their man. I am not nor have I ever suggested that women be forced to do this, I am suggesting that if she chooses to make a concious choice for the better, it will pay handsome benefits for her.
My problem witih women is that they invariably make excuses to throw it back on the guy, she can never just accept her responsibility in what she is doing wrong or even admit that she is doing anything not conducive or advantageous for her relationship.
Women can choose to wear anything that she wants to, but I am reminding her that choices have consequences. It says to the guy that he is not important enough or she does not love him enough for her to take care of him. This breeds resentment rather than romance.
That was all that I was trying to communicate. We are all adults and most of us are christians.
Now I realize that we don’t have non verbal communication and the written word is so easily misinterpreted. These are the things that I teach couples in a private 4 hour session and it goes over well. Because I also take on the guy for the things that he does wrong as well and equally. It came across I believe that I was a misogynist because I was speaking of what women do wrong not men, but that was what the whole post started on.
In my defense, I was so flabbergasted at how fast it got out of hand and the pure hatefulness of some commenting and other who made me the butt of their jokes, I was not communicating at my best. I too have feelings. So could I have communicated better, sure, but how would you communicate if you were on my end? It was verbal bullying. Now I am strong and can take a lot of things, but can I understand how a 15 year old girl could commit suicide over the overwhelming verbal bullying, yes I can. Your posters said that you strrive to make your blog a safe place, I believe that about you. Some of your posters made sure that I did not feel safe on your blog.
So I am trying to make a positive difference in people’s lives. I do a fair amount of pro bono work were I don’t make a dime. Am I perfect, hell no, am I trying real hard, yes I am.
Blessings on you and yours
John Wilder
Hi John.
I appreciate you answering some of our questions.
May I please address your statement about how you didn’t feel safe on this blog – a place we all believe is a “safe place”?
Let me compare this blog to a chicken pen (forgive me, I’m from the country). It is a safe place. However, when someone new comes in and starts handing out unsolicited advice, such as you did, it is VERY much the same as setting a fox among the chickens. There’s going to be a LOT of noise – and much of that is for the protection of the young and defenceless chickens.
Does that make sense?
I’ve been reading the blog for a while now, but I didn’t post a comment until I took time to learn the culture of the blog, and got to know some of the commenters a bit.
In reference to the “rape quote”, I am the “other commenter” that commented on it. The reason I did so, was because I found it so offensive, hurtful and distructive, that I couldn’t believe that someone who works to repair marriages would think that.
I have read your response regarding this quote, and still believe it to be insufficient.
If I, in my studies, used the fact that there are “16 books on Amazon” in support of my argument, I would be given a straight-out fail. 16 books out of how many millions? How many books are there on amazon that deal with how to restore victims of rape and the ongoing affects of rape on the female psyche?
Please be reassured that at this time I am not angry, but just bewildered at what seem to be baseless “facts”.
Also, as part of my studies last year, we did quite a comprehensive study on what the Bible means when it exhorts men to “love their wives as Christ loved the Church”. What I see on your blog in no way mirrors my understanding of the Christ/Church – Husband/Wife as shown in the Word.
“Also, as part of my studies last year, we did quite a comprehensive study on what the Bible means when it exhorts men to “love their wives as Christ loved the Church”. What I see on your blog in no way mirrors my understanding of the Christ/Church – Husband/Wife as shown in the Word.”
Amen to that!
Paula”
I accept that you find it offensive. We live in a whole spectrum of views on sexuality. I find no fault in a woman’s rape fantasy between a willing couple. It is not up to me to judgte, and it is the woman’s fantasy. I find it oxymoronic that you on the one hand talk about protecting the chickens in the hen house and then tossing out the rape fantasy on here knowing that women have had such an experience. Would it not have been more considerate to take me aside on my blog or email to make your case and consider the women on here? I got the blame for your poor judgement.
I fully support the man loving the wife as Christ loved the church and believe it or not, I am not a misogynist. My book is not finished and I have not put all of the chapters on the blog. What is on the blog are chapter excerpts. I have chosen to take on women first and the men later.
Does a man loving his wfe as Christ loving the church automatically give women a pass for any behavior? Should a man just shut up and take it when he is being verbally abused by his wife and sexually starved by his wife? I have a best friend who is constantly for the last 25 years been sexually starved by his wife. He is lucky to get it every couple of weeks. She adamantly refuses to wear anything frilly or lacy. Should he respect these decisions that she makes. She is a professiing Chrisitan. 60% of the women out there have their men on a once a week or less frequency. Should men just accept that and not complain? The average man needs sex 3 times a week.
Feminists have so set up women to be above any criticism. The level of misandry in this country is toxic. We have made women into God deciding when a baby is a baby and it is murder and when a baby is not a baby and it is her right to kill it. I don’t see anything in the bible about women demanding their rights to say no to their husbands.This is feminist philosophy and should not be being quoted by christian women. Proverbs 31 was about a huge change in husband wife relationships. It essentially did away with multiple wives and concubines to satisfy the husband’s sexual needs and turned into one woman alone who was now responsible for his needs. This was the meaning of the verse 11 where he could safely trust his heart with her and have no need of “spoil”. The word spoil here meant concubines and wives taken in war to satisfy the husband when the primary wife refused him. Many bible translators mis translate the word spoil to be earthly goods.
I for one am like John the Baptist a lone voice in the wilderness saying no, enough is enough. I am speaking up for men and holding women accountable.
I don’t believe that any woman should be forced to have sex against her will or wear frilly lacy things against her will. (she should make more positive choices) but most women have no problem at all forcing their husbands to do without sex and frilly lingerie AGAINST HIS WILL and we are just supposed to shut up and take it?
This has nothing to do with the vaunted equality that feminists espouse. It is about absolute dominance by women.
I am okay with agreeing to disagree about the rape fantasy. What I refuse to do is to be shamed and judged by you. I support women’s fantasies. This group speaks with a forked tongue for saying that I have a one sided view of women, but then on the other hand think that I should publicly judge women’s fantasies in my writing. Can you see my problem with that?
Blessings
John Wilder
Mr. Wilder,
Write your book somewhere else please?
Because my daughter reads this blog.
The author of this blog is also a personal confidante and a very close friend of mine and after my daughter read all the comments and even my rant, she cried. For Tammy, and for me..
Not because of what you said but because her mother (ME) had to tell the WHOLE world (YOU) that I was raped. and the the other woman. She knew already and she knows that I have recieved good counseling and GOD’s grace has repaired those areas of my life. But, She said it was unfair of you to bring up such a subject of personal pain.
Also, a direct quote ” God brought up beautiful women for their grooms… not mud covered doormats”
It’s over Mr. Wilder.
and Kindly address Tammy by her earned name of Mrs. Hodge, (Tam is only used by family & friends)
Thank you for opinions, views, rants, They were kindly reviewed,
please move on….(and yes I can say that)
I want to be able to share this blog with my daughter once again.
Thank you very much,
and
May God seize your heart!
Again, I did not bring it up on here. I am just getting the blame for it. Since it is not your blog, I will leave when Tammy invites me to. I vowed not to come back but chose to answer questiions and accusations at Tammy’s request. I am sorry for your hurt and pain.
Read my answer to Paula if you have not already.
Blessings
John Wilder
Okay that’s fair.. She’s the author.
and she has that right…
I overstepped, Tammy, I am sorry for that.
Mr Wilder,
Please don’t give me any sympathy for my pain. Only people who are close are able.
and by the way
I DO HAVE THAT RIGHT!
too say that!!
sis, you did not overstep. at all.
please tell Col i am sorry. and heidi i apologize, with all my heart, to you as well. i am really sorry.
i should have never allowed it to go on this far.
that was my mistake…and poor judgment.
i love you. i love you all here.
Tam,
If I may, I would like to say that your judgement was not poor in this, you, like many other commenters on this post, desired to give mr. wilder a chance – to explain his caustic and demeaning views so that we might understand or so that he might understand why they were unpalatable – you desired to extend to mr wilder the chance to change his language and his views in light of what was shared here and you desired an even exhange of ideas. It is not your fault that this did not happen. Please don’t feel that it was your fault. You extended the man the chance to change, you were patient and kind and there is nothing wrong with that.
(I hope I’ve made sense with this comment.)
That being said, I believe that your handling of this situation shows what an amazing heart you have, so thank you for that. 🙂
G
mr. wilder…i believe you are done here.
I keep hearing “wah wah wah” from Charlie Brown. 😐
Tammy, I think you have handled this marvelously and with great patience. Love you.
Amen and Amen.
im exhausted.
I love my wife. And i would rather die than allow Herron be raped. By anyone, including me. There is never an OK time to allow this fantasy. Even if my partner ever wanted it, I’d love her too much to allow her distorted view of sex to be played out.
Never. Never. Never. Would i rape my wife. God said to love her as He loves his church. He died for it. Thank God he never raped it!
“God said to love her as He loves his church. He died for it. Thank God he never raped it!”
I was thinking more on this last night as I went to bed and this is exactly what occurred to me. mr wilder ‘confesses’ to ‘preach’ that the love of a husband should mirror the love that Christ had for the Church, but I can find no support of that in the image he gives of marriage.
Christ didn’t manipulate people into loving Him and He never forced people to love Him.
Also if you look at the way He treated women given the culture He was born into it was completely counter-cultural. I recently re-read a book by Lee Strobel called The Case for Faith where one of the people he interviews talks about the historocity of the Bible and points to the fact that the disciples admitted that it was women who first found the tomb empty. And how if they were making it up they would not have chosen to do this because in that day and age the testimony of women was not trusted!
Christ wanted it to be that way, He chose to have women play an important role in his life and resurrection. Thank God for that!!
Thank you Brent!
G
WHAT?! this is still going on?! I already threw down my popcorn and took back the banana-hammock!
Dude. Grab the hammock back and bring it to Oregon 🙂
deal.
gross
Hi Tam,
I am someone who has watched your blog with interest. From what I have observed you belong to an amazing community of well balanced people.
I wanted to talk to the women out there that are hurting and may even be questioning themselves. This is not for Mr Wilder to comment on. I respect that he has a point of view but this is not about him.
I was brought up in a very strict Christian home where there was a lot of religious, verbal and physical abuse. This groomed me for a marriage that was very much the same. I became what I had learnt was the good christian wife. I wore what my husband wanted, did what he wanted, when he wanted and as often as he wanted. I would do everything in my power not to inflame situations and to respect him but still was verbally abused and occassionally physically.
I eventually found the courage to leave him. My daughters school contacted me to tell me that my three precious girls were being sexually abused by their father. I was a very broken person that was left with no self respect or confidence. I did not even have the confidence to look people in the eye.
I have been to counselling and have come through this experience as a much stronger woman. Most people would not have a clue about my past or my childrens past. I do not hate men. I still respect them but I would hope that I will never be a doormat again. I have learnt that I am allowed to think for myself and have an opinion and that what I think matters. Becoming exactly what someone else wants you to be at the expense of being who you are does not make a marriage happy. Marriage should be based on mutual respect and compromise.
I attend a church now that is more forward thinking than what I was brought up in. It provides me with community, love and safety. I am still working on having a real relationship with God as a lot of damage has been done when it comes to “religion” and I am working on separating christianity and religion.
Thank you for the sensitive way that you have handled this. Please do not be too distressed by what has been put on this blog. I see it as an opportunity to clarify again in my own mind how important it is to be true to ourselves as women.
Kind regards
I now belong to a christian community that is m
*HUG*
“Becoming exactly what someone else wants you to be at the expense of being who you are does not make a marriage happy.”
Thank you for articulating that, you are right in your reading of mr wilder’s comments as far as this goes. I know understand my reaction against him.
I am glad you found healing!
*HUG*
G
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